I dont not normally like stats, But.....

I dont not normally like stats, But.....

This is a discussion on I dont not normally like stats, But..... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Not a bad article. Still makes me wonder about CO.... Auditing Shooting Rampage Statistics - Daily Anarchist...

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Thread: I dont not normally like stats, But.....

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    I dont not normally like stats, But.....

    Not a bad article. Still makes me wonder about CO....

    Auditing Shooting Rampage Statistics - Daily Anarchist
    mprp likes this.
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    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Interesting. I am always leery of stats, since they can be used to prove or disprove depending on how they are used, but his methodology (while not all that scientific) seems logical.
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    Thanks for the link, that was a very interesting article.

    The average number of people killed in mass shootings when stopped by police is 14.3

    The average number of people killed in a mass shooting when stopped by a civilian is 2.3.

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    Distinguished Member Array sid1's Avatar
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    I am not big on stats either, and I’m not going to challenge his methodology. And in my minds eye I would also agree that the numbers would be higher when stopped by LEO due to the time factor vs a civilian at ground zero. And will also say the author has a valid point in saying the larger shootings get more press. The smaller shootings that were stopped by a civilian, where the casualty was at its minimum, may not get the highly exposed press coverage.

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    vulnerable or doing something?

    From original blog post:
    Final analysis

    With 14 incidents stopped by police with a total of 200 dead thatís an average of about 14.3. With 15 incidents stopped by civilians and 35 dead thatís an average of 2.3.

    The first point I want to draw your attention to is that roughly half of shooting rampages end in suicide anyway. What that means is that police are not even in a position to stop most of them. Only the civilians present at the time of the shooting have any opportunity to stop those shooters. Thatís probably more important than the statistic itself. In a shooting rampage, counting on the police to intervene at all is a coin flip at best.

    Second, within the civilian category 10 of the 15 shootings were stopped by unarmed civilians.


    To add a further push to civilian carry: If I was in that theater in CO, I would have rather been in a position to do something about what was happening (with my H&K 9mm) than sitting there with popcorn and a diet Coke and totally unprotected...

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    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Hey! Don't flame me....just saying like everyone how numbers can be used by either side (I think the Brady Bunch is a bunch of idiots) but here is an interesting stat:

    NUmber of Mass Killing Committed by Concealed Carry Holders (since 2007)=11

    Source Violence Policy Center
    http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwmassshootings.pdf

    They would say that concealed carry permit holders are the cause of mass killings........

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    VIP Member Array mprp's Avatar
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    Well there you have it. That one is hard to argue and one of the better ways I've seen to sift through the garbage. He had to have spent quite some time and put a lot of thought into this. Well done.
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    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Not going to blame or pick on LEO. But facts are facts. They are seldom on site for a crime. They come along after words.. We worry all the time about LEO being gunned down .
    Seldom happens . You are far more likely to be gunned down in Milwaukee than any LEO.
    We just had first Deputy killed in line of duty in 12 years last week it was a traffic accident, the one killed 12 years ago traffic accident. But every week many citizen are gunned down, I grant you most of them are criminals also .
    Your safety your protection is up to you not LEO. Some will even tell you that. Most often they are to busy carrying out the local PC agenda of the day.
    Numbers are how you look at them no honest people left to give just facts with no PC slat.

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    Hey! Don't flame me....just saying like everyone how numbers can be used by either side (I think the Brady Bunch is a bunch of idiots) but here is an interesting stat:

    NUmber of Mass Killing Committed by Concealed Carry Holders (since 2007)=11

    Source Violence Policy Center
    http://www.vpc.org/fact_sht/ccwmassshootings.pdf

    They would say that concealed carry permit holders are the cause of mass killings........
    Yep they are out there.....Lets flip the scrip, what if one of the victims had been armed, maybe the killings wouldnt be so bad. It really doesnt matter who is doing the killing, what matters is, who is stopping it quicker with less life lost....
    suntzu likes this.
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    The key to this whole self defense concept is the fact that the victims are always at the scene of the rampage shooting; it follows that the potential victims have the best chance to stop it. The statistics prove that. Law enforcement is almost never there, and if they are, like in the Aurora theater incident, they are still ineffective at stopping it because they are outside, not inside where the victims are.

    It shouldn't be a surprise that armed potential victims have a better chance of stopping it than unarmed potential victims.

    Fitch
    ďThe whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.Ē by H. L. Mencken

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