real life attacks

real life attacks

This is a discussion on real life attacks within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey gang, this is an attack that happened in my neighborhood, a man walking home from a bar and a teenage girl asks him for ...

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  1. #1
    New Member Array timbo's Avatar
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    real life attacks

    Hey gang, this is an attack that happened in my neighborhood, a man walking home from a bar and a teenage girl asks him for a light, she notices he has a cell phone and asks to use it, while on the phone she looks at him and says ; "WHAT THE F**** YOU STARING AT!!!"
    He takes his phone back and continues walking home, he is walking past a parking lot a block away and two cars full of teenagers pull in next to him, they get out and attack him, according to him he held his own but, there was just too many of them and he wound up on the ground and they were stomping his head in to the ground.
    The paramedics thought he was hit by a car!!!
    Luckily he didnt go into a coma, there have been several attacks such as this in my area, if it were you would you shoot even though they are unarmed?
    How much legal crap would you incur?
    I personally would shoot because no punk kids are going to beat me into a coma and take me away from my wife and kids.


  2. #2
    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    its called disparity of force, under certain circumstances an armed person can shoot an unarmed person- disparity in size and numbers. Meaning if you're 120# and get jumped by a 300# body builder you can shoot, or if there 2 on 1 or 3 on 1....

  3. #3
    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    "Two carloads of teenagers" assuming they were'nt 13y/os seem to me like "disparity of force" and I would definately use my Legally Carried Firearm.

    Unfortunately in the state of MD I would more than likely get beaten within an inch of my life. And if I survived, I would then have to hope that fear of a repeat performance, if word got out that I lived and can ID the ********, is enough justification so that the state just "May Issue" me a permit for personal protection.

    MikeV

  4. #4
    Member Array Spectre's Avatar
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    I ignore requests for a "light" or to use my cell phone. Get away from me, I have nothing for you. It's sad that I have to do that, but this story solidifies my position.

  5. #5
    Member Array stevetim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbes View Post
    its called disparity of force, under certain circumstances an armed person can shoot an unarmed person- disparity in size and numbers. Meaning if you're 120# and get jumped by a 300# body builder you can shoot, or if there 2 on 1 or 3 on 1....
    If it is disparity of force, draw the line on what constitutes the right to use your weapon to use it. Where does the threat's size/weight ratio, start compared to yours, allowing you to take action with a weapon?
    I'm 5'10" and 170lbs. How big does one unarmed individual have to be for me to use "disparity of force"? What if the 2-on-1 is you vs. 2 4'10" 98lb. unarmed girls? Disparity of force sounds like it needs to be proven that you are in fear of actually being maimed or killed by your attacker(s).

    I live in FL, so I am under the "stand your ground" umbrella and basically only need to be in "fear of my life" to use lethal force. This is such a subjective clause. Disparity of force doesn't really apply to me, but I would like to hear a more detailed breakdown of when it applies.

  6. #6
    New Member Array CEOO's Avatar
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    Most states don't permit carrying in bar and good luck if the victim had a drink or two and shoots someone afterward. I wonder if the perps knew this and targeted the unsuspecting bar patron?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Array GoodSamaritan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timbo View Post
    Hey gang, this is an attack that happened in my neighborhood, a man walking home from a bar and a teenage girl asks him for a light,she notices he has a cell phone and asks to use it, while on the phone she looks at him and says ; WHAT THE F**** YOU STARING AT!!! " he takes his phone back and continues walking home, he walking past a parking lot a block away and two cars fulll of teenagers pull in next to him ,they get out and attack him, according to him he held his own, but there was just too many of them and he wound up on the groundand they were stomping his head in to the ground, the paramedics thought he was hit by a car!!! luckily he didnt go into a coma, there have been several attacks such as this in my area, if it were you would you shoot even though they are unarmed and how much legal crap would you incur, I personally would shoot because no punk kids are going to beat me into a coma and take me away from my wife and kids.

    Nope, I wouldn't shoot. Because I don't drink, and even if I did, bars are off limits for carry in this state anyway. Alcohol and firearms don't mix any more than alcohol and automobiles. Your ability to make good decisions and react accordingly will be just as off as if you were driving. Around here at least, your friend would have committed a crime simply by carrying in the bar.
    The safe thing to do, would be don't drink, drink at home, or take a cab. I am sorry to hear about your friend, but he placed himself in an dangerous situation, and those punks figured him for an easy target.

    As for "how much legal crap would you incur", it depends on a lot of factors. Not the least of which is the local laws, whether these punks have a rap sheet or not, if there are any witnesses to confirm they attacked, you, and how fast and how well they can agree on a "We were minding our own business, when that crazy guy with a gun attacked us" story. Even if a squad of off duty, marines, three policemen, and a bus load of nuns, witness the event and testify on your behalf, you are going to be vilified by the media. Most likely your life savings, will be wiped out in the ensuing civil suit where those punks' mothers will stand before the court wailing and showing baby pictures of their little angels. Even if you win, it will can easily cost you well into the six figure range, to fight it.

    In short, it is in your best interest to avoid making yourself an easy target to begin with. Failing that, de-escalate, and retreat whenever possible.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Array gregarat's Avatar
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    I ignore requests for a "light" or to use my cell phone. Get away from me, I have nothing for you. It's sad that I have to do that, but this story solidifies my position.
    +1

    I especaly hate letting people use my cell. I always get a call from someone, demanding to know how my phone # came up on their caller ID.

  9. #9
    New Member Array timbo's Avatar
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    Good responses, let me state that the attack happend when the victim was 6 or 7 blocks from the bar he was in.

  10. #10
    Member Array Hobbes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevetim View Post
    If it is disparity of force, draw the line on what constitutes the right to use your weapon to use it. Where does the threat's size/weight ratio, start compared to yours, allowing you to take action with a weapon?
    I'm 5'10" and 170lbs. How big does one unarmed individual have to be for me to use "disparity of force"? What if the 2-on-1 is you vs. 2 4'10" 98lb. unarmed girls? Disparity of force sounds like it needs to be proven that you are in fear of actually being maimed or killed by your attacker(s).

    I live in FL, so I am under the "stand your ground" umbrella and basically only need to be in "fear of my life" to use lethal force. This is such a subjective clause. Disparity of force doesn't really apply to me, but I would like to hear a more detailed breakdown of when it applies.
    Yes of course you have to fear for your life, as far as a ratio, there is none. You just better not shoot unless you think you may die.

  11. #11
    Member Array MarkM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by timbo View Post
    a man walking home from a bar and a teenage girl asks him for a light,she notices he has a cell phone and asks to use it
    The smartest thing is not to end up in a situation like this. I would not be walking home alone from a bar if I was carrying. Any request from a teenage girl would be met with a polite "sorry, can't help you" while I continued walking.

    two cars fulll of teenagers pull in next to him ,they get out and attack him, according to him he held his own, but there was just too many of them and he wound up on the groundand they were stomping his head in to the ground
    Assuming I was unfortunate enough to be in a similar situation (without having been drinking) where two cars pulled up next to me (I would immediately be making distance between myself and the cars) and the (6-8?) occupants jumped out and shouted "get him" or moved towards me I would be in fear of my life (as others have said: disparity of force, 6-8 healthy teenagers with unknown weaponry, against one 30-something guy), in such a situation I would draw my weapon while commanding them to stop, if they did not stop I would fire (and probably spend the next couple of years defending myself against lawsuits :( but better judged by 12 than carried by 6).
    First rule of a gunfight: Carry a gun

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEV View Post
    if word got out that I lived and can ID the ********, is enough justification so that the state just "May Issue" me a permit for personal protection.

    MikeV
    Probably the AFTER your funeral.
    Rick

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  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array SixBravo's Avatar
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    Assuming I was just walking home and wasn't drinking....

    If two carloads of pissed-off looking kids roll up on me in an empty parking lot, chances are pretty good that they don't want to sell candy.

    The gun is out, safety off, and I'm ready for it. I'm a big dude (275) with some fighting skill, but not against 5 or more 17/18/19 year olds. If you're dumb enough to go riding around picking fights....
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  14. #14
    Member Array MIKEV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstickle View Post
    Probably the AFTER your funeral.
    at which point, the state would also deny my WIDOW a permit... because after all the threat was to your husband and he's dead now so obviously there is no longer a threat!!

    MikeV

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array slimjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixBravo View Post
    Assuming I was just walking home and wasn't drinking....

    If two carloads of pissed-off looking kids roll up on me in an empty parking lot, chances are pretty good that they don't want to sell candy.

    The gun is out, safety off, and I'm ready for it. I'm a big dude (275) with some fighting skill, but not against 5 or more 17/18/19 year olds. If you're dumb enough to go riding around picking fights....
    +1 - I perceive this as a significant threat. It's too bad we don't live in a society that supports those who help rid of the criminals. Oh, and if they're kids, let's go after the parents. That would solve a few problems.

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