Extra magazine? - Page 5

Extra magazine?

This is a discussion on Extra magazine? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; F350, thank you for your reply, Sir. I truly did not mean to insinuate those who chose to go without a secondary mag are any ...

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Thread: Extra magazine?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array jdsumner's Avatar
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    F350,
    thank you for your reply, Sir.
    I truly did not mean to insinuate those who chose to go without a secondary mag are any less of a person for doing so. I simply was stating that if one talks to most pistolsmiths, they will tell you that the most common malfunctioning part or weakest link if you will of the autopistol design is the magazine. But, it is usually the quickest remedied, if the secondary mag is available. When one figures what a mag weighs, and its relativley small size, it seems almost as easy to have one as to not. For me personally, it is really just a matter of habit now. If I put on a gun, I put on a secondary mag.

    Dan


  2. #62
    Member Array mikaldulee's Avatar
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    The military solution to a weapons failure was called SPORTS...

    S...Slap up on the magazine
    P...Pull the charging handle to the rear (aka rack the slide to the rear)
    O...Observe the ejection of the round/open chamber
    R...Release the the charging handle(aka slide forward)
    T...Tap the magazine
    S...Squeeze the trigger

    Kill the goblin...failing that duck/hide...;)

    I try to carry at least one reload on me at all time. Spare rounds and/or mags in my car.

  3. #63
    Member Array Zach S's Avatar
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    No, I don\'t, primarily because a flat tire is a fairly common problem with cars. But I don\'t worry about uncommon problems which is why I don\'t carry around a spare battery, an extra set of headlights, another brake cylinder, a backup radiator, and so on. I bet you don\'t either. Why not? Because you trust your equipment!
    On my two-ton Chevy caprice, the weakest link is the set of 225/70R15s it rides on.

    On an autoloader, the weakest link is the magazine.

    FWIW, in a little over seven years I\'ve never had a flat. But I still carry a spare.

    Having a flat tire and no spare is a stupid reason to be stranded. Just like having a gun-shaped club is a stupid reason to lose a gunfight. JMO.

  4. #64
    Distinguished Member Array David Armstrong's Avatar
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    Actually he has trained SWAT, FBI, Marines, etc. for years.
    Yes. As I said, he has done a lot of training and shooting. The research area is more questionable.
    I don\'t think he got the info from \"anybody\" or their writings. In talking with him, I got the distinct impression he is basing his conclusions on reports, studies, etc. He really doesn\'t seem like the kind that follows somebody\'s writings.
    Most trainers get their statistical information from other people and sources, such as the FBI “Officers Killed Summary. Doing extensive research is pretty much a full-time job in and of itself. Like I said, that “information” began making the rounds following an incorrect reporting by a writer. If Ernie has done any significant research in this area I’m not aware of any, and a search of the literature doesn’t provide any support for it.
    I really doubt that Ernst would fabricate info and claim it came from studies.
    I doubt it also. Like I said, he’s not the only one that has tossed that bit of info around. However, that doesn’t change the fact that it is much like the “a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member” claim from the gun control crowd. That was bad research and an incorrect conclusion, but it still keeps popping up regularly.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Array KC135's Avatar
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    Extra ammo, magazines, speed loaders, are choices. Yes I carry one reload for each gun I carry:), but I also carry at least 3 guns, minimum caliber is 38/9MM.

    People, do not be lazy, do your own research. Everything needed is out there, including the 'Officer Killed' report. All it takes is time.

    Remember, there are about 4 times a many people out there who claim to be 'operators' as there are people that have that training.

    Me, just a student, but I always remember the medium.

  6. #66
    DNM
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    3 guns at all times KC??? I\'m sorry to say this... but don\'t you think that\'s a little \"much\"??? Why??? Not to be an a** or anything but I would assume that if you\'re a good shot (especially under pressure) that one gun [and around 21 rounds] would be enough. :tick:

  7. #67
    Ex Member Array F350's Avatar
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    DNM -

    When I drove a delivery truck for a specialty food distributor (Jimmy Dean sausage, deli product etc) I mostly delivered to rural areas. When I delivered $2,500 of product the county folks would take me to the office, open the safe that had dust on the combination dial \'cause it was never locked and count out the cash. I would end up going back to \"the big city\" with $30-75,000 depending on the season (highest around a holiday). I carried 3 guns, they were all positioned at different places on my body so my hand was close to one no matter what, and incase I was caught by surprise and disarmed of my main gun, hopefully the BG wouldn’t expect someone to carry 3 guns. I kept a S&W 66 in an upside down shoulder gig under left arm, .380 auto in the left rear pocket and a 2 barrel .38 derringer in a holster I sewed to the outside of my left boot. There were those in the company that thought I was nuts….until a driver for Bob Evens was found in the back of his truck shot in the head; then everyone wanted to know how to get a permit and advice on what to get to carry.

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array Euclidean's Avatar
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    I can see 3 guns. It may be awkward for someone to reach for a weapon in a certain position if it\'s holstered somewhere hard to reach.

    It\'s the same reason I carry 2-3 knives. If my right hand is busy holding something still, my left hand can draw and cut quickly and vice versa.

    When I go out at night, I bring an extra flashlight or two for the same reason.

    Personally I think I\'ll start off carrying a speed strip for just in case, and later on I\'ll carry a second gun as funds permit.

  9. #69
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    1 extra , 20 rnds total.

  10. #70
    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    whooeee!

    In retrospect, I wish I had written in my first message in this thread (#38) that I carried 1 extra magazine...
    Last edited by Anubis; January 22nd, 2005 at 05:55 PM.

  11. #71
    Member Array NYC Drew's Avatar
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    Mostly no spare on my person. If I have a choice between the cell phone and a spare mag, the cell phone always wins.

    Zany as it sounds, I'd prefer to carry a 2nd gun over a 2nd mag.

    ps - I like David A's line of thought. Common sense + statistical probabillity + gut feel.

    'Drew

  12. #72
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    Let me be perfectly clear that the following remarks are not based on my personal experiences in gunfights, but rather from lot's of training in "street fight" FOF scenarios at shooting schools. Most of us can not count what we do at the range as training because of range restrictions. I shoot once a week as tactically as I can by myself and within the constraints of the range. But it's really hard for me to call that training, too much is absent for it to be training.

    But, based on things I have learned at schools both from instruction, instructors, and FOF simulations, a gunfight is NOT an organized event, the progression of a gunfight can not be predicted, rarely controlled, and seems like something unexpected always happens. But, the number of rounds we carry in a gun or whether we carry an extra mag or not, either comes from personal convinence, perceived need, training, or confidence in statistics. The more training I get, the more I see people carrying either a spare gun or spare mag.

    I personally believe the most common misconception about a gunfight is that 2 - 3 rounds will get the job done. Many, if not most, trainers teach shoot until the threat isn't a threat. There's no doubt that many gunfights do end in 1 to 3 shots, in fact, according to the NRA? 90% of "gunfights" end with the presentation of a gun. On the other end of the spectrum, we've all heard the horror stories of assailents getting shot 10 times before they go down! Couldn't we find ourselves in a gunfight against an opponent like that? We've all heard the accounts of how many 9mm rounds it took to stop a BG. Remember the cops that shot the guy reaching for what turned out to be his wallet? Here was 3 or 4 cops (I can't remember now) shooting at one guy and there was like 21 or so rounds fired. If 3 or 4 cops shoot something like 21 rounds at a single, unarmed, basically stationary target, why do we think that as a stand-alone civilian we can generally get by with 2 or 3 rounds?

    As for shooting and missing a lot, that's entirely within the realm of reason. We're in a life or death fight, it is highly unlikely that we will get in "our stance and grip" and shoot at a stationary target, squared off to us, not shooting back, and in the noon sunlight. We may have to protect a loved one with one hand and shoot one-handed, while we and the BG both are moving.

    Then to the issue of the spare mag. To me, a spare mag is not carried to prevent one from running out of bullets in a gunfight, although that would be disasterous. But because gunfights are so unpredictable, the strongest reason for carrying a "spare" magazine is in case the one in the gun comes out inadverently. How? Well, again, a gunfight can be anything. The BG may have learned in prison in a desperate situation he should try to grab gun and if he can't gain immediate control of it, then try to release the mag. Maybe the mag wasn't seated and it falls out. The gun could be dropped or bumped in that "one way" that would release the mag. Without a spare, in order to get the gun back in the fight, we have to find the mag, reach down and get the mag.... With a spare mag we have an option of making distance, seeking cover and reloading. Without a spare, we can still make distance and seek cover, but then what? Our only mag is "out there" on the ground.

    It is just as sound to argue that the above can/will happen, as it is to argue that it won't happen - gunfights are not predictable, they are what they are. I personally believe it is more important to carry a spare mag for a semi than a speed loader for a revolver even though a revolver is limited to 5 - 7 rounds. It is much, much less likely that the rounds will get dumped out of a revolver than the mag dropping out of a semi. Plus, it is highly unlikely that if you run out of ammo in a revolver, that you will be able or have time to reload it.
    Last edited by Tangle; January 25th, 2005 at 11:44 AM.

  13. #73
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    pretty much prepare for the unexpected cause you can pretty damn well bet it is going to happen.

    ~A
    Fave Quotes

    The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live!!!

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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    The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government.
    Henry Ward Beecher

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by APachon
    pretty much prepare for the unexpected cause you can pretty damn well bet it is going to happen.

    ~A
    Amen to that, and "Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst."

  15. #75
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    Off topic but for those that ride motorcycles,

    "Ride like you are invisible and everyone is out to get you" I have had years where I logged in well over 115000 miles a year on a bike as it was my job to test prototype motorcycles.

    ~A
    Fave Quotes

    The main reason Santa is so jolly is because he knows where all the bad girls live!!!

    All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
    Edmund Burke

    The worst thing in this world, next to anarchy, is government.
    Henry Ward Beecher

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