The .22 pistol and round for self defense...My take on it. - Page 5

The .22 pistol and round for self defense...My take on it.

This is a discussion on The .22 pistol and round for self defense...My take on it. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by blitzburgh With all these .22 threads, I'm really getting the itch to buy a .22 pistol.. though my Henry might get jealous. ...

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Thread: The .22 pistol and round for self defense...My take on it.

  1. #61
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzburgh View Post
    With all these .22 threads, I'm really getting the itch to buy a .22 pistol.. though my Henry might get jealous.
    Henry must learn to share.


  2. #62
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Lets try to keep it all based in fact and not fiction. An average box of .22 does not have a whole handful of duds in it.

    I used to shoot up a whole heckova lot of .22 RF (AKA MANY multitudes of thousands) and in my lifetime I have had as many "duds" as I have fingers on my right hand if even that many.

    I once shot up 2,000 rounds of .22 Rimfire ammo that was over 25-30 years old and stored in a hot barn without a single failure to fire.
    Nice! Do you remember what brand it was?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    Do I really need to cite sources to back up my claim that an average box of .22 LR has a whole handful of duds in it? I should point out that I meant a bulk box of 500 (which should have been obvious). And a handful is approximately 10 rounds of .22 LR -- this gives a dud rate of ≈10/500 or 1/50, and I find that to be unacceptable for self-defense purposes. I don't remember even 1 centerfire dud in all my life. I've had the same experience with a 10/22, a few target pistols, and an AR15 .22LR. Most duds have been rechambered and did not fire a second or third time, which places the blame on the ammo, not the firearms.

    People might find match ammo to be more reliable, but the bullets are not jacketed, and probably the worst possible choice for self-defense. I've shot .38 Specials with no recoil at all, so it seems a solution in search of a problem, here.
    Yes, yes you do.

    Sometimes people have only a little bit of money they can realistically spend on self defense and portraying your opinion as fact is a bit nonsensical when it comes to caliber wars. For example, at the local farm store which happens to have the absolute best deals on handguns around here:

    Springfield XD 9mm $464.99+$30 app fee +$15 background check + $25.57 tax= $535.56 total
    or....
    Taurus M22 in 22lr $194.99+30+25+10.72=$250.71 total.

    Took it out of the ad from the Sunday paper, not making it up. That $284.85 more is unrealistic in most people's budgets around here. That's the difference between having a larger caliber and being homeless. That's also ANOTHER Taurus M22 in the pocket if you'd be willing to spend that much. IMO I'd prefer 2 .22s in the pocket vs one 9mm. To blatantly lie like that may cost somebody their life because they may choose to pass up on the .22 because YOU said that there's a handful of duds.

    By the way, I also buy those big 500 and 550 round bricks. Still haven't had a FTF. Let's base it on truth like the admins said.

  3. #63
    VIP Member Array Bad Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    Do I really need to cite sources to back up my claim that an average box of .22 LR has a whole handful of duds in it?
    Considering that you are the only one with that problem.

    When I was in High School, my dad's house gun was a Ruger Standard loaded with CCI Stingers and 5 extra mags.
    My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

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  4. #64
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cupcake View Post
    Yes.



    Agreed that it's an acceptable rate. I just don't buy the percentages at all.



    Umm...if the firearm is lightstriking a round, even if you rechamber the round the firearm is still lightstriking.

    I assume that you mean an 'unacceptable' rate. I'm not selling anything, here... that's just my experience.

    I hate to ask -- if you strike a round several times and it does not fire, while all of the other rounds do fire on the first attempt, why would you blame the firearm?

    I am baffled that anybody would question the fact that rimfire ammo is less reliable than centerfire.
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  5. #65
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    I've observed that rimfire ammunition is less reliable than centerfire ammunition, and getting worse. Was shooting cheapo Remington with "Golden bullets" just this morning and getting the occasional dud or else a round that required a second strike. The Smith & Wesson Model 17 used isn't the problem either.
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  6. #66
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40Bob View Post
    Considering that you are the only one with that problem.

    When I was in High School, my dad's house gun was a Ruger Standard loaded with CCI Stingers and 5 extra mags.
    A simple challenge, Good Sir. Read the entire thread and honestly count how many people find rimfire to be less reliable than centerfire.

    I await your tally.

  7. #67
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    I sure do remember - Remington HiSpeed Kleanbore .22 Long Rifle.
    and it was accurate ammo also.
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  8. #68
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post

    The .22 rifle is a good weapon. I have no argument there. The pistol on the other hand....
    That is why the more adventurous out there will hunt wild hogs with the FN57 pistol. That is why, unfortunately, it has a reputation with drug dealers, who obviously do not want to hurt anyone. That is why there is are problems with the ATF over armor piercing 57 ammunition. That is why many law enforcement agencies including the secret service have the 57 in their arsenal. That is why you should try one before you use your "other hand" in your reply.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    That is why the more adventurous out there will hunt wild hogs with the FN57 pistol. That is why, unfortunately, it has a reputation with drug dealers, who obviously do not want to hurt anyone. That is why there is are problems with the ATF over armor piercing 57 ammunition. That is why many law enforcement agencies including the secret service have the 57 in their arsenal. That is why you should try one before you use your "other hand" in your reply.
    You obviously do not understand my position on the 5.7 you could go back a read my position on it in the ammo thread. I am on board with it. However, this discussion is not on the 5.7 it is on the .22lr. That is what the other hand meant. I guess my swedish is hard to understand these days...
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harryball View Post
    You obviously do not understand my position on the 5.7 you could go back a read my position on it in the ammo thread. I am on board with it. However, this discussion is not on the 5.7 it is on the .22lr. That is what the other hand meant. I guess my swedish is hard to understand these days...
    Sorry for not understanding swedish. The 22 calibre, as expressed in the 57 is, and we agree, is very different from the 22lr. It still is a 22 calibre bullet with a heck of a lot of powder behind it. Apples and oranges. Sorry for causing any angst.

  11. #71
    Member Array mcbridebr's Avatar
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    Honestly, the .22 round *can* be a self defense round. Two points I would like to make here.

    1. If you shoot someone in the head with a .22 round chances are it will go through the front of the skull. Chances of it going through the other side of the skull are slimmer. That little ole' .22 round will bounce around in the brain cavity to some extent.

    2. If you shoot someone anywhere else with a .22 its going to hurt. If your lucky you can place one in a vital organ. Like I said though if you shoot someone any where else it will hurt like the dickens. Now the chances of them running off due to that pain are almost 50/50. If they have a firearm, chances are it will not be a .22. They may decide to stand and shoot back, in which case you are out gunned.

    Point I am making (you may have noticed) is that carrying a .22 round as a self defense round is like playing a game of chance.

    Would I carry it as a self defense round? Probably not, unless I were Jack Bauer.

  12. #72
    Member Array tricolordad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbridebr View Post

    2. If you shoot someone anywhere else with a .22 its going to hurt. If your lucky you can place one in a vital organ. Like I said though if you shoot someone any where else it will hurt like the dickens. Now the chances of them running off due to that pain are almost 50/50. If they have a firearm, chances are it will not be a .22. They may decide to stand and shoot back, in which case you are out gunned.

    Point I am making (you may have noticed) is that carrying a .22 round as a self defense round is like playing a game of chance.

    Would I carry it as a self defense round? Probably not, unless I were Jack Bauer.
    The chances of a BG returning fire with his .45acp are pretty close to nil. He'd be incapacitated and bleeding heavily because of this: The concept we've all learned and that our CCW world revolves around is shoot until the threat is stopped. Personally, I've seen action and I do know that after you've been hit, your reflexes suffer, your accuracy is about nil and you go into shock pretty quickly. You're going to have about a second to pull your gun and blow him away with your larger caliber before he shoots you again and again and again... IMO at supermarket or parking lot duel distances, you're at a disadvantage if you're the BG and somebody pulls a .22lr pistol on you and puts a whole mag into you from about 10 feet in under 4 seconds even if you have a .45 stuffed somewhere in that hoodie.

    As far as shot placement goes, best spot to shoot with a smaller caliber is the abdomen and right above the groin. You try running with your intestines shredded. It's like running after Chris Kluwe kicks you in the balls. Not likely...

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array Cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueHawk76 View Post
    What should I check? I was using a relatively new Sig P229 9mm (about 500 rounds in it) with a brand new 22 conversion kit. It was my first time using the conversion kit when I had the FTFs and FTEs with the Thunderbolts.
    Not familiar enough with either that pistol or conversion kit to have decent input, but anything from the striker/firing pin to the strength of the spring that could reduce the amount of energy transferred to the round.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by stanislaskasava View Post
    I assume that you mean an 'unacceptable' rate. I'm not selling anything, here... that's just my experience.

    I hate to ask -- if you strike a round several times and it does not fire, while all of the other rounds do fire on the first attempt, why would you blame the firearm?

    I am baffled that anybody would question the fact that rimfire ammo is less reliable than centerfire.
    1. Correct - my bad. I'm not selling anything either.

    2. If other firearms can fire tens of thousands of rounds without a failure, but your firearms tend to have a high percentage of failures to fire of the same brand/model of cartridge, why would you blame the round and not the firearm? Perhaps it's some magic combination where an individual round barely meets tolerance, and the firearm barely provides enough energy to the round via the firing pin. Most rounds will go in most guns, but when a light striking gun meets a round that requires more energy than an average round they aren't going to play well together.

    3. I'm not questioning that it's less reliable - it has a reputation for a reason (but I do that tiny, dainty hardware is likely bears some large percentage of the responsibility)...I just think it's ridiculously over-exaggerated. I'm questioning that several duds in a box of 500 is possible given a properly functioning firearm. Again, I've never had a single failure to fire in tens of thousands.
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  15. #75
    Member Array mcbridebr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolordad View Post
    The chances of a BG returning fire with his .45acp are pretty close to nil. He'd be incapacitated and bleeding heavily because of this: The concept we've all learned and that our CCW world revolves around is shoot until the threat is stopped. Personally, I've seen action and I do know that after you've been hit, your reflexes suffer, your accuracy is about nil and you go into shock pretty quickly. You're going to have about a second to pull your gun and blow him away with your larger caliber before he shoots you again and again and again... IMO at supermarket or parking lot duel distances, you're at a disadvantage if you're the BG and somebody pulls a .22lr pistol on you and puts a whole mag into you from about 10 feet in under 4 seconds even if you have a .45 stuffed somewhere in that hoodie.

    As far as shot placement goes, best spot to shoot with a smaller caliber is the abdomen and right above the groin. You try running with your intestines shredded. It's like running after Chris Kluwe kicks you in the balls. Not likely...
    That puts a bit of perspective on the situation, thanks!

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