that was not the issue in question, so would you fairly say 10 lethal hits with a 50 cal would be better ? were talking 22. capable or not, is what I am getting here....Quote:
Originally Posted by Harryball
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that was not the issue in question, so would you fairly say 10 lethal hits with a 50 cal would be better ? were talking 22. capable or not, is what I am getting here....Quote:
Originally Posted by Harryball
Last Friday I had 5 duds out of one box of Winchester 333. I know for a fact it wasn't weapon related, I had 2 in what had been a stone reliable GSG-1911 with any .22s I've used, 2 in a brand new Ruger 10/22CRR, and 1 in a brand new Ruger Single-Ten.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupcake
Lethal hits right? The individual could still kill you. IMO a .22 will kill, it just might take awhile for them to do so, by that time you might be dead. That is my pointQuote:
Originally Posted by JerryMac
I like the idea of a 22mag carry revolver. S&W 351pd 7 rounds 11oz 22mag.S&W 43c 8 rounds 11oz. these little revolvers are expensive but if its what you want??
Rich
I don't think anyone is arguing your point, just your numbers. I guess my handful is bigger than yours, to me a handful of 22 LR's would be about 50.Quote:
Originally Posted by stanislaskasava
Then don't use average boxes of ammo? Seriously. I'm like I hope just about everyone else here when it comes down to something vs nothing. There are a plethora of reasons why someone may or may not NEED to use a .22LR that a number of folks have already pointed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by stanislaskasava
As to the reliability/dud issue, buy better ammo. I don't plink every day, but I know if I don't feel like dealing with duds I don't use my bulk 500/1000 brick of the cheapest winchester stuff I found at the time. I KNOW there are duds. The last bulk brick I went through had a dud about every other 10rnd magazine.
If I don't want duds I use a 50rnd box of CCI's and which type of CCI's depends on the reason for shooting. IF I'm just plinking a few off and trying to be quiet about it and not irritate the neighbor than the CCI CB Longs are great. I've only had 2 that I recall out of 2 the last 2 50rnd boxes fail to go bang.
If I'm taking meat(granted small meat, but meat none the less:rolleyes:), then I use the CCI Mini-Mags. I have yet to have them fail on me. I use them in both a Walther P22 and a Ruger 10/22. They both eat them all day long. It's a bit expensive, but at the end of the day, they go bang.
I would think this would translate to SD. IF I were in a position to only be able to carry that little walther...I'm loading it with minimags. And I'll take that tiny .22 with the potential for a dud over a rock any day of the week.
For small game and or social work, I use CCI Mini-Mags myself. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by packinnova
I arrived at the exact same weapon configuration for a "women's and children's" home defense weapon for when I'm away, as well as the very same positioning (90 deg. angle to doorway). It worked quite well on a hardened violent home-invader thug (armed with 9mm & shank screwdriver) who kicked in the back door intent upon chasing down and killing my young son.Quote:
Originally Posted by suntzu
The chase was a full-out sprint. From the time the door was kicked in, a chase ensued from one end of the house to the other, and someone was gunned-down was only 10-15 seconds.
Ruger 10/22 dropped the sucker dead. Teen who shot intruder in Spring Branch home: 'I was scared' | khou.com Houston
Frankly, I previously had serious reservations (something is better than nothing), but actually seeing that dead guy and a ton of his lung tissue on my floor made me think. Then hearing the detective & ME tech explain how quickly a .22 rifle works (not pistol), I had to totally reevaluate my position.
Note, on humans, use at least 40-grain solid point ammo pushing at least 1,000 fps; it will punch right through a rib and even the sternum at close range when fired from a rifle. Do not use hollow points nor high velocity rounds under 40 grains (for small game and won't work quickly on humans).
Which is why you don't buy "average" ammo for defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by stanislaskasava
People spend $35+ for 20 rounds of some "super-duper", "one-shot-stop", "gun-writer-approved", "killer-ammo-of-the-month" for their 9mms, .40s, .45s, .38s and such. . But then load their .22 with Wally-Word discount special, or bulk pack ammo.
Geez. . If you're going to carry a .22 firearm, shell out $10 for some CCI Velocitor or Stingers or similar! There is a reason why they cost $10. They have reliable primers and better over all quality control. I have Velocitors in my NAA mini-revolver that I use to take with me when when I walked the dog.
I recently switched to a S&W 442 J frame. No doubt a better caliber, but my biggest complaint about the NNA revolver wasn't caliber. It was the fact that the complex reload procedure basically made it a 5 shots and you're out, gun.
I don't care what caliber of gun you have, most people don't like holes of any kind in their body!!!
The only rimfire ammunition that I have had malfunction was a box that a guy (stupidly) left in his garage for the last five years. All that heat, cold and moisture sure did a number!
If a .22lr weapon is all a person is comfortable with or able to handle due to hand strength then I applaud them for being willing to be armed and defend themselves. Would I rather see them with something that has more punch? Yep, but it's a whole lot better than complying with a rapist or robber.
The September 2012 issue of American Rifleman has an article called "Handgun Stopping Power. (pgsl 50-56)" It lists data using 10% ordnance gelatin using .22 Long Rifle, .32 North American Arms, .32 H&R Magnum, .380 ACP, 9mm Luger, .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .40 S&W, 10MM, .45 ACP, .460 Rowland and .45 Colt.
If you look at the .22lr section, they used CCI 32 gr. Stinger out of both 2.4 and 5" barrels. The penetration for each with the exception of the Stinger from a 2.4" barrel would seem to suggest that, provided you hit center of mass and keep repeatedly hitting it, that even with the mere 8 inches of penetration from the Stinger out of a 2.4" barrel, you would stop a threat DEAD, especially if you're hitting the chest and punching into the lungs.
(And yes, I know it doesn't carry as much energy as 9mm, but not really sure that's an issue considering the stats and facts...
I'll put the results below, but if it's against the rules, I'm sure a mod will let me know. I've cited the source above, so doubt it will be a problem.
CCI 32-gr Stinger (2.4" barrel): 1012 fps velocity at 10'; 8 inches penetration; 1.61 expansion factor
CCI 32-gr Stinger (5" barrel): 1283 fps velocity at 10'; 10 inches penetration; 1.38 expansion factor
CCI 40-gr Velocitor (2.4" barrel): 833 fps velocity at 10'; 14 inches penetration; 1.00 expansion factor
CCI 40-gr Velocitor (5" barrel): 1061 fps at 10'; 12 inches penetration; 1.34 expansion factor
average .22 lr performance: 1047 fps velocity at 10'; 11 inches penetration; 1.33 expansion factor
It's got a few advantages vs. say just for an example against Hornady Critical Defense in 9mm Luger: 115 gr 1119 fps at 10'; 10 inches penetration; 1.58 expansion factor.
You've got less recoil which allows you to reacquire the target very quickly, you've got a better expansion factor, which comes into play even more so than the greater surface area of the 9mm as the .22lr round will tumble and 'bounce around' and you've got rate of fire. However, nothing trumps preparedness. If you draw at the same exact time as somebody carrying that 9mm round, you will probably get off the first round at the same time, the second slightly before and so forth, but if you're hit, it's not the same as drawing first, firing first and dropping the BG before he can get a shot off.
Prepare, practice and become proficient with your .22 if you're going to carry it. Know the zones to hit, study up on human anatomy a little bit. It can't hurt.
I carry one, but I practice with it almost every day USING the load that I am going to carry. But, having said that...it's not the only caliber I carry.
edit: I took the 9mm sample from the same study and picked it at random by dropping my pencil and picking the load nearest the eraser. Not picking one over the other for any specific reason. I have carried the 115 gr Critical Defense, it is a good round. I haven't had many problems with it. :smile:
I see this getting argued in other threads daily, but not here anymore. Lets stick to the facts and leave opinion out of it.
92-year-old Verona man shoots intruder at home | NKY.com | cincinnati.com
1 shot with a .22 worked for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPanther95
That's the reasoning behind training to move offline while returning fire, instead of trying to stand and deliver...Quote:
Originally Posted by oakchas