Do you feel safe at work?

This is a discussion on Do you feel safe at work? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Ok I will try to answer each of these as best I can. This is the first time hearing of your situation unless I missed ...

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  1. #91
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    Ok I will try to answer each of these as best I can.

    This is the first time hearing of your situation unless I missed it somewhere else in one of your posts. I understand why you do it but it is still a choice sorry it has nothing to do with your employer. You clock in at a certain time and clock out at a certain time after that what you do is on you not him. You can drive your car, walk or take the bus it is up to you it is your choice. Let's say you took the bus and carrying was prohibited is it now the bus companies fault and should they have to provide rifle racks and lock boxes?

    In regards to your comment about redunant statements and punctuation do you really want to go there Mr. "BRAKE ROOM and BRAKING COMPANY POLICY" guy is this the best you can do? Anyways.

    Whether your car is in the shop, you ride the bus or hitchhike to work it is not the employer's responsibility to provide you with squat and there is no law saying such. Besides as you stated yourself you carry anyway so the lockbox is not needed. The employer is in no way responsible for you once you are off the clock. So you are saying that since you ride a bike on occasion should you get hit by a car the employer is responsible? Where is the case law?

    I understand that your state the signs do not carry the force of law. If you would have read and comprehended what I posted I said:

    the threat level is so high due to gangbangers after your family you knowingly and willingly carry a concealed weapon against your companies policy knowing you could get fired if caught, charged criminally and ruined finacially if you had to use it BUT you ride a 10 speed to work unarmed?

    Please note the proper use of comma's.


    Which is it? Are you in constant fear for you and your families life or is the threat not quite as big as you make it out to be if you are riding unarmed on a bicycle? If I have a group of individuals who are gunning for me and my family the last thing I am going to do is put myself in a position where they don't have to shoot me or beat me to death. All they have to do is drive by and whiz a 40 oz at my head or simply run over me. If this threat was real you would have a weapon and be in a vehicle not unarmed on a bike.

    Answer the question, which is it? Are you in constant fear for you and your family that you feel the need to carry 24/7/365? or are you making the threat bigger than it really is? This has nothing to do with my choices you set the parameters brother not me. The simple fact remains if the justification for you carrying all the time is this threat then you choose to go unarmed and ride a bike? It doesn't seem to support your position.


    What lawsuit? If I were 'made' and my employer fired me, neither of us could sue the other. My carrying against his wishes isn't illegal, and he can rightfully fire me for braking a company policy.

    What lawsuit? The one you would bring against your employer should you be the victim of a criminal act when you were riding your bike home remember? You said your employer is responsible since he gives you nowhere to lock up your gun, remember? Nowhere did I say you would file a lawsuit for "being made" at work and terminated. As I stated you would have a hard time finding a lawyer to take the case and a judge would laugh at you as he refused to file it.

    As far as whatever the guy said on Debate.com I would keep listening. Armyman I understand your points and why you feel the way you do. I am truly empathetic to them but for now you have to adapt to the situation and what laws are in place now. You stated you have been over here and felt safer right? Well think about what made you safer it wasn't all the guys around you with guns, sure that may have been part of it, but the main thing was it was pretty cut and dried.

    I do not know if you are a straightleg or a POG but either way you see a guy with gun, spidey senses up, he does not point weapon continue to watch him but don't kill him, he makes a furtive movement with a weapon he is bought and paid for simple as that. Adapt, overcome do what you have to do to protect yourself and your family but don't put that responsibility off on others. To say "I could not defend myself because of my employer's policy" is BS. If you have made the decision to carry anywhere no matter what then do it no one is saying different. You do what you have to do plain and simple but in the end be ready for whatever consequences you have to bear including losing your job over it.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    LOL. I hadn't seen that one, Suntzu.

    I'm wiping bits of boiled (pronounced 'bald' for yankees reading this) peanuts off my screen.
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  4. #93
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    Hey if you don't care about me then I don't care about your rules. It's to easy to become partizen on the topic, so let's explore the deeper concerns.

    Let's put some real details in here.

    This gun: The Smith & Wesson Model 642 Centennial Airweight Revolver

    In this holster: SmartCarry - Concealed Gun Holsters

    Doing carpentry work, let's say hanging cabinets (fairly typical winter job for me).

    How would my carrying while at work harm anyone or anything?
    Doesn't matter.
    Again we get back to the fact that you have not spoken to your employer about it. They may have no problem with it.

    Instead you are pursuing a course that would take that discretion away from the employer.
    Let me ask you, have you ever worked with a person who you would not be comfortable with carrying a weapon? I have worked with a number of mentally unstable individuals in my lifetime. I have worked with people who have showed up for work under the influence.
    Instead of getting permission for yourself the course of action you are pursuing would potentially arm your coworker with a borderline personality disorder who is convinced that he was cheated in the office football pool by anyone who picked their numbers before he did.
    So who is not caring about other here? Do you think your efforts to deny an employer any say in who carries on the job is really a responsible course of action?
    Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis

  5. #94
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    I use to........ until I saw the company put up "no conceal carry" signs and all over head doors had metal sliding fences installed. Doors were reinforced... Turned out, some upper management people were being jerks to some employees. Those employees left and threatened (We don't know which employees made the threats) to one day come shoot up the place.. I tell my close co-workers all the time that if they see an ex-employee, run for the nearest exits.

    seriously, some people at work are idiots. I planned on leaving whenever I find a new job. No, i won't put the company's name on here..
    I don't feel safe anywhere actually. At work....I'm usually too busy to think about it.....but I do carry a screwdriver in my back pocket just in case I happen upon a psycho.
    My company has no CC anywhere on the property.
    Dominance is only in the mind. Who has power over you? You. Make your decisions and live by them. I'm growing tired of the man playing God ordeal, and I sympathize with those who can't make up their own mind. You're free! Free to choose and free to walk about this earth with peace of mind. The minute you let another man decide your fate.........you're simply gambling with everything you have.
    WHEC724 and tacman605 like this.

  6. #95
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    Suntzu I don't have the little head bangy guy or I would use it to!!!!

    How would my carrying while at work harm anyone or anything?

    It wouldn't harm a thing as they would never know UNTIL you are caught in the middle of a home invasion. You draw and fire hitting one of the suspects, the other suspect fires killing the homeowners wife then then you shoot him with a perfect head shot. Now for the aftermath, In my state anyway "Officer I had no idea he was carrying a gun, he did not tell me as required by state law when he entered my home".

    You were not legally upon my premises so any defense or good guy status you may have had is out the window. You will no longer have to worry about whether you ride your bike or drive the car as I will probably own both, your company will be paying out the nose, remember the "Law of Vicarious Liability" they are responsible for your actions while on the clock even though they did not know you were committing an illegal act. Your future employment is doubtful since you will probably could be charged criminally for your actions.

    See just thinking of Me, Me, Me, Me all the time does not work. Everything you do touches someone else and brings them into your world. Is it fair for you to assume that some innocent wants to be drawn into your gunbattle as an unwilling participant just so you can feel safe? Take a moment and think if it was one of your boy's who was that innocent put in the middle of a gunfight by someone with the attitude Me, Me, Me my rights, damn everyone else's rights, I will be armed and safe. Would you feel the same way?
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #96
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    I don't feel safe anywhere actually. At work....I'm usually too busy to think about it.....but I do carry a screwdriver in my back pocket just in case I happen upon a psycho.
    My company has no CC anywhere on the property.
    Dominance is only in the mind. Who has power over you? You. Make your decisions and live by them. I'm growing tired of the man playing God ordeal, and I sympathize with those who can't make up their own mind. You're free! Free to choose and free to walk about this earth with peace of mind. The minute you let another man decide your fate.........you're simply gambling with everything you have.
    Thank you! Life is way too short to worry about certain things...Deal with the task at hand, take care of your health, be honest with yourself and others, and make wise decisions.
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  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Ok I will try to answer each of these as best I can.
    I still don't see how any lawsuit could come about since I would have been lawfully carrying in a place I had a right to be.

    In the past I carried while at work, to and from, unless we were working a site where firearms were prohibited by law, such as the Air Force base or a bank. For everything else it was "don't ask, don't tell". I'm a bit more sympathetic to the other side now but that doesn't change history.

    The "I could not defend myself because of my employer's policy" is exactly how we're getting cars protected, so don't be so fast to dismiss it.

    Case in point:

    State high court says gun in car is legal at University of Kentucky

    A University of Kentucky graduate student and employee was wrongfully fired for having a gun in his car, the Supreme Court of Kentucky has ruled.

    ~snip~

    Mitchell filed suit, saying his firing violated the state and federal right to bear arms. The circuit court granted summary judgment in favor of UK, and Mitchell appealed the case to the Supreme Court.

    The justices said the case presented two conflicting issues: the right to bear arms versus UK's right to prevent them on campus. In the end, a majority of justices concluded that the conflict had to be resolved in favor of the intent of the Kentucky General Assembly.

    "We base this on the General Assembly's explicit statement that the concealed-carry licensing statute is to be liberally construed in favor of the right to bear arms, as well as the legislature's clearly expressed policy of exempting a person's vehicle from firearms regulation," the decision said.

    Justice Wil Schroder, writing for the court, said the law is "clear and unambiguous."

    "It forbids a public organization, such as a university, from prohibiting the possession of a firearm in the glove compartment of a vehicle," Schroeder wrote. "There can be no other reasonable interpretation of the statutory language."
    Another state allows guns in employees’ cars at work.
    July 27, 2011 by Fred Hosier

    About a month from now, a 14th state will allow employees to store legally owned firearms in their locked, privately owned vehicles while at work.

    Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) signed the bill into law. It takes effect Sept. 1, 2011.

    A worker’s individual and constitutional right to self-defense does not end when they drive onto their employer’s property,” said State Senator Glenn Hegar (R), the bill’s sponsor. Hegar calls the measure “good policy that provides workers with a means of viable self defense while commuting between their homes, their workplace and anywhere in between.”

  9. #98
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    I'm not on the clock. That's the rub. That's my point. I'm not on the clock. They aren't paying me. I'm not on their property. I'm not in a company vehicle. I'm not performing my duties for the employer.

    An employer has no authority over an employee outside of work.
    I think this response need further clarification....
    Just sayin.... Ya know?

  10. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Six View Post
    Do I feel safe at work? Well let's see, I have an M4 carbine, a Benelli M4 shotgun, four handguns in my drawer, and several hundred rounds of ammunition in my office. I guess I do feel safe.
    I wanna work were you do!!!!! 👍

  11. #100
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Suntzu I don't have the little head bangy guy or I would use it to!!!!
    Click the img button on vBullitenn post editor and paste this url into it: http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/fi.../bash-head.gif

    How would my carrying while at work harm anyone or anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    It wouldn't harm a thing as they would never know UNTIL you are caught in the middle of a home invasion. You draw and fire hitting one of the suspects, the other suspect fires killing the homeowners wife then then you shoot him with a perfect head shot. Now for the aftermath, In my state anyway "Officer I had no idea he was carrying a gun, he did not tell me as required by state law when he entered my home".
    I just want to be clear: You're assumed to be a pro-gun individual, on a pro-gun forum, telling an otherwise lawful gun carrier, that he should not defend himself from a 'forcible felony'?

    The most likely burglaries occur right after the electrical is installed because thieves target all the copper wiring. This is a likely scenario and is a good example of why I carry. You're telling me that when I have to choose between my job or my life, that I should choose my job?

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    You were not legally upon my premises so any defense or good guy status you may have had is out the window.
    I don't work in your state so there's no duty for me to announce. Since there's no duty for me to announce and I would have a work permit, I would have had a right to be there. As for your assumptions of a wife being killed, that's highly presumptive. Fact-based circumstances can never be accurately predicted ahead of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    You will no longer have to worry about whether you ride your bike or drive the car as I will probably own both, your company will be paying out the nose, remember the "Law of Vicarious Liability" they are responsible for your actions while on the clock even though they did not know you were committing an illegal act. Your future employment is doubtful since you will probably could be charged criminally for your actions.
    You might win a civil suit, and yes I might have to look for work elsewhere, but even if I lost the ability to legally carry a gun, I would be alive.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    See just thinking of Me, Me, Me, Me all the time does not work. Everything you do touches someone else and brings them into your world. Is it fair for you to assume that some innocent wants to be drawn into your gunbattle as an unwilling participant just so you can feel safe? Take a moment and think if it was one of your boy's who was that innocent put in the middle of a gunfight by someone with the attitude Me, Me, Me my rights, damn everyone else's rights, I will be armed and safe. Would you feel the same way?
    Every time you guys says say "my property my rules" that's all I hear is "mememememememe".

    Every time I give you real reasons behind why I make the decisions I do, all you have to offer are unlikely fictional hypotheticals followed by more "mememememememe".

    So I asked you how anyone would be harmed. You said no one would be. You are choosing not to justify your "I Me Mine" mentality.

  12. #101
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    • My job, my employer in the Army requires me to meet a PT standard. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I have a documented knee problem. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I don't have my own stationary bike, money to buy one, a place to put it, or 24/7 acess to a pool. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I can't go bike riding at a performance level that will challenge my cardio while my children are tagging along, nor do I have the money to pay a babysitter every other day so I can ride solo. I don't have a choice in that.


    Riding my bike to work after the children have been put on the buss is the best way for me to get my low-to-no impact cardio in.

    The same is true of my collage classes, but we're not debating carrying on school grounds here.

  13. #102
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    • My job, my employer in the Army requires me to meet a PT standard. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I have a documented knee problem. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I don't have my own stationary bike, money to buy one, a place to put it, or 24/7 acess to a pool. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I can't go bike riding at a performance level that will challenge my cardio while my children are tagging along, nor do I have the money to pay a babysitter every other day so I can ride solo. I don't have a choice in that.

    Riding my bike to work after the children have been put on the buss is the best way for me to get my low-to-no impact cardio in.

    The same is true of my collage classes, but we're not debating carrying on school grounds here.
    Is it at all possible that it it your choice to ride a bike and not your employers rules that prevent you from being armed on the way to work? Does your employer have a responsibility to ensure that you are free to exercise your right to bear arms when you are not on the job?
    When and where do your responsibilities kick in?

    Michael
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  14. #103
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Conscription for U.S. military ended in 1973. So again we are back to choices you have freely made.
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  15. #104
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    • My job, my employer in the Army requires me to meet a PT standard. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I have a documented knee problem. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I don't have my own stationary bike, money to buy one, a place to put it, or 24/7 acess to a pool. I don't have a choice in that.
    • I can't go bike riding at a performance level that will challenge my cardio while my children are tagging along, nor do I have the money to pay a babysitter every other day so I can ride solo. I don't have a choice in that.


    Riding my bike to work after the children have been put on the buss is the best way for me to get my low-to-no impact cardio in.

    The same is true of my collage classes, but we're not debating carrying on school grounds here.
    Since you are in need of a solution I will provide you one (are you an NCO by any chance?). Get yourself an inexpensive bike rack. Drop the kiddies off. Drive to work and go for a ride. Might be a tad shorter but you can get in a work out everyday.

    Or, get out of the army if you can not handle that commitment. Sorry to be blunt but that is a hard cold fact. Many folks leave the service because they can not keep the commitment for whatever reasons.

    But to blame all of this on a gun issue is IMO ridiculous. Your employer is not responsible for your time management nor your commitment to your other job.

  16. #105
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    Conscription for U.S. military ended in 1973. So again we are back to choices you have freely made.
    You mean we should accept responsibility for our own choices?
    You don't think that is a bit mean spirited and overly harsh?

    Michael

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