Do you feel safe at work?

This is a discussion on Do you feel safe at work? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by tacman605 Well it seems no matter how much sense I make, the questions I ask or how nice I am all I ...

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  1. #121
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Well it seems no matter how much sense I make, the questions I ask or how nice I am all I get is more studies that have nothing to do with the topic, questions go unanswered or answered with more questions and being nice just doesn't get it anymore I guess.

    Armyman everyone on this forum has again answered your questions over and over. Once again you have drawn everyone in to try to get the response you want with the same lame studies and statistics. You still have not answered the question into this gang threat that you have against you or the question in reference to what if it was your kids caught in the crossfire but I don't expect you to because the threat more than likely does not exist and it will surprise me greatly if you even own a gun much less carry it while you work.

    You have constantly said in multiple posts that your employer is responsible for any crime you face while riding your 10 speed because you have no place to store your gun, then claim ignorance when asked about the lawsuit you would file against your employer because you were attacked and you were unarmed? You say you carry at work anyway without anyone knowing so what is the deal with not carrying on a bike and the lockbox?

    As myself and others have said over and over until the law is changed you can do nothing more than moan and complain and post studies and statistics, that's it. Like I said run for office or find someone with your views, make sure not to tell them about the lockbox thing and how the employer is responsible when you ride your bike, they might drop you like a hot rock.

    I cannot put the direct questions to you any plainer than what I have but you choose not to address them or reply with statements about gramatical errors when you have problems with the word "Brake and Break" so if that is the best you got go for it.

    You have come up with some of the most ******* statements in your posts to avoid answering any direct questions put to you that tells me one thing, you are not being truthful in your statements. I truly hope you are a better soldier than you are at providing a convincing argument on the internet, if not you will be an E-5 POG for a long, long time. I wish you good luck with your kids and life I truly mean that because you are seriously gonna need all the luck you can get just to survive the daily grind.
    I think instead of running for office or putting a lock box on my (18speed) mtn bike (non of the laws covering cars cover bikes anyway), I'll stick with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy and carry against the employer's and clients knowledge, until the law is changed.

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  3. #122
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    This thread kidna went to crap
    sigmanluke likes this.
    The stupidity of some people NEVER ceases to amaze me.

    G19 AIWB

  4. #123
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    The law will never be changed to require employers to pay for lockers so you can exercise your 2A rights on your employer's property. You can quote me on that. It will not happen regardless of which party is in control of government.

    Sure, carry against your employer's wishes and if discovered your failure to follow your employer's rules will be cause for termination. If you are terminated for cause you will have no case for recourse though I suspect we would be hearing about how your employer is responsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    I think instead of running for office or putting a lock box on my (18speed) mtn bike (non of the laws covering cars cover bikes anyway), I'll stick with the "don't ask, don't tell" policy and carry against the employer's and clients knowledge, until the law is changed.
    tacman605 likes this.

  5. #124
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    When choices collide the employer's choices, so long as they are legal ones, prevail. The employer is paying you to work for him. The employer does not have to answer to you the employee. You have to answer to him.

    Private property rights trump individual exercise of rights on private property and they always will. The vehicle exception in the states that have granted it is a very limited exception which will not be expanded in the manner in which you desire.

    Simply saying you don't accept an argument doesn't make the argument invalid. It simply means you are unable to detach yourself emotionally from the situation to separate what is from what you desire it to be. Quite honestly if you worked for me I'm sure I would have terminated your employment a long time ago (and since South Dakota is an at-will employment state I would be within my rights to do so). I'd imagine your hard-headedness spills over into other aspects of your professional and personal life.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    I hear what you're all saying, that we choose our employer, we choose how we travel. You keep restating this as though I don't get it.

    I don't accept your argument, that doesn't mean I don't understand your argument.

    The employer chooses to be in business at all, and the employer chooses the policy. This means every argument you've posed against the individual right to self defense, also falls back against the employer, because we both have made choices.

    When choices collide we have to look at the underlying issues. If an employer wants to tell his staff that they have to submit to the will of sword or shotgun-in-a-box criminal, the employer had better have a damn good reason.

    If the employer doesn't have a good reason, then you have no argument. We have and will continue to make progress on this issue primarily because the private-property side can't come up with a 'need' to infringe on the right of self defense, whereas we do present the 'need', in great detail, to be armed.

    While you tire of banging your heads against the wall, we won't stop until the wall crumbles.
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  6. #125
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    @Armyman
    While you tire of banging your heads against the wall, we won't stop until the wall crumbles.
    Who is we? A lot of the folks here (who are ardent supporters of the 2A) do not want the government to get involved and force employers to bend to your will. We like the idea of having free will. And what I do not like is to have someone like you who because of personal reasons wants laws to be written to accommodate you. Not as a class of citizens that carry guns.
    You seem to feel that you are some Martin Luther King standing up for the rights of us poor gun owners everywhere. The problem is I and a lot of others do not want your help. You are an NCO in he army I assume. I would like to say I have never seen an NCO whine as much as you have about not being accommodated for something such as time to get ready for a PT test. But sadly I have. You have a task soldier. Go do it and stop pointing fingers at others for not being able to accomplish it.
    You need to take a lesson from General (retired) Frederick M. Franks, Jr. He lost a leg in Vietnam. I met him once at an NCO Academy while I was visiting a soldier there. He told the NCO's that there is no excuse for whining and not being able to achieve standards (APFT). Gen Frank still did the 3 event PT including the run and could still pass.
    NotMallNinja and tacman605 like this.

  7. #126
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Here here! I for one would prefer ArmyMan not speak up for my 2A rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    @Armyman

    The problem is I and a lot of others do not want your help.

  8. #127
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    Wow, intelligence and sarcasm in one post.

    NotMallNinja where did you come from? Welcome to the forum come and have a beer it's on me.

    Armyman please count me as one also for whom you do not have to stand up for my gun rights, thanks for the offer though.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    The law will never be changed to require employers to pay for lockers so you can exercise your 2A rights on your employer's property. You can quote me on that. It will not happen regardless of which party is in control of government.
    The locker was a compromise. I'd rather carry my gun then lock it up anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Sure, carry against your employer's wishes and if discovered your failure to follow your employer's rules will be cause for termination. If you are terminated for cause you will have no case for recourse though I suspect we would be hearing about how your employer is responsible.
    That's an acceptable risk, and if caught, I'll leave without a fuss.

  10. #129
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    ArmyMan,

    Let me give you a case in point. Where I am stationed I cannot carry concealed on post and I cannot have a loaded weapon unless it is on the range or in my quarters. To carry concealed off post I have to have my weapon separated from my ammunition and the weapon must be openly displayed in the vehicle. When going off post I have to stop, get my ammunition, lock & load and then go about my business. When coming back on post I have to unload the weapon, display it openly, and store the ammunition away from the weapon. This keeps me "legal" with respect to being able to carry - provided I properly registered my weapons on post and carry a post-issued weapons permit (which I would need even if I were only to keep weapons in my quarters). I have a choice in these matters. I could choose to leave the military and gain employment with an employer more supportive of my desire to carry.
    I just leave my gun at home when I go on-base.

    I've been speaking of private property which has been opened to the public or employees, not military installations.

  11. #130
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    I just leave my gun at home when I go on-base.
    Why?

    Shouldn't the military provide lockers so you can exercise your 2A rights when traveling to and from base?

    The government is infringing on your right to carry in the manner and mode of transportation you choose. That is, and has been, your argument. If you're going to apply it then do so evenly.

  12. #131
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Wow, intelligence and sarcasm in one post.

    NotMallNinja where did you come from? Welcome to the forum come and have a beer it's on me.
    Thank you for the welcome and the beer. And, thank you for your service. It is I who would should be buying you a beer (but alas, General Order #1 saves my wallet).

  13. #132
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    When choices collide the employer's choices, so long as they are legal ones, prevail. The employer is paying you to work for him. The employer does not have to answer to you the employee. You have to answer to him.

    Private property rights trump individual exercise of rights on private property and they always will. The vehicle exception in the states that have granted it is a very limited exception which will not be expanded in the manner in which you desire.

    Simply saying you don't accept an argument doesn't make the argument invalid. It simply means you are unable to detach yourself emotionally from the situation to separate what is from what you desire it to be. Quite honestly if you worked for me I'm sure I would have terminated your employment a long time ago (and since South Dakota is an at-will employment state I would be within my rights to do so). I'd imagine your hard-headedness spills over into other aspects of your professional and personal life.
    It's better to be heard-headed then dead, so make whatever policies for your business you like, I'll be ready for the sword or shotgun-in-a-box wielding nut ball when they come through the door. If you still fire me for defending myself, you will have made me into an ideal candidate to join the coming class-action lawsuit to prevent you from making such policies in the future.

    But hey, if you like bumper-sticker sloganeering, I like it too: I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

  14. #133
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Why?
    It's a felony.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    Shouldn't the military provide lockers so you can exercise your 2A rights when traveling to and from base?
    The Air-Force has a demonstratable 'need' to maintain a gun-free zone, so no.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotMallNinja View Post
    The government is infringing on your right to carry in the manner and mode of transportation you choose. That is, and has been, your argument. If you're going to apply it then do so evenly.
    The scope of my argument has always regarded private employers and private business which are open to the public. A military installation is neither of these.

  15. #134
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    Thank you for the welcome and the beer. And, thank you for your service. It is I who would should be buying you a beer (but alas, General Order #1 saves my wallet).

    LOL not so fast my new friend. I am not in the military, I am a Private Contractor working with the 1st SFG. I am not saying GO#1 does not apply but......anyway beers on me.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  16. #135
    Ex Member Array ArmyMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    @Armyman
    Who is we?
    The NRA, certain politicians, and like minded individuals on this forum who choose not to chime in as often, like a certain 1st SGT, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    The problem is I and a lot of others do not want your help.
    Then I suggest you start donating to our opposition, because like it or not, we're pressing forward.

    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    You are an NCO in he army I assume. I would like to say I have never seen an NCO whine as much as you have about not being accommodated for something such as time to get ready for a PT test. But sadly I have. You have a task soldier. Go do it and stop pointing fingers at others for not being able to accomplish it.
    You need to take a lesson from General (retired) Frederick M. Franks, Jr. He lost a leg in Vietnam. I met him once at an NCO Academy while I was visiting a soldier there. He told the NCO's that there is no excuse for whining and not being able to achieve standards (APFT). Gen Frank still did the 3 event PT including the run and could still pass.
    Oh, I trust you'll lead by example and stop whining about "it's my property" then. Good, that should help things along.

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