What kind of any armor was this SOB wearing? what type of ammo would have gone though it? what about shots to the face,head,arms,legs,gorin?
What would have a 5.7 pistol done? great and not noticeable effect.
what would you have done?
What kind of any armor was this SOB wearing? what type of ammo would have gone though it? what about shots to the face,head,arms,legs,gorin?
What would have a 5.7 pistol done? great and not noticeable effect.
what would you have done?
I would go back and read all of the other threads that were talking about that tragedy
Not completely convinced he was wearing armor, could've been just a carrier like this one. Tactics wouldn't change. ICE doesn't use the 5.7 anymore b/c poor actual performance on people using ammo that penetrates armor - kinda like stabbing someone with an icepick.
Nobody could know with certainty what they would do, not until they are there with lead flying.
Awful easy to come up with a foolproof plan when you know what's coming down, play by play.
A <search> for title=Aurora and date=3mos/Newer will find several good discussions.
We listened to the actual 911 tapes from it during my fire training so we could take some learnings from a MCI perspective. They in the tape found him in his car.
I find some GREAT concern with several aspects of the OP...Quote:
Originally Posted by bunkerguy
The questions asked:
What kind, if any armor was worn? I would think there is AMPLE information on the internet, without advancing "queries" on this forum. I would encourage the OP to use "google" to gain answers.
What type of ammo would have penetrated said armor if it was worn? Again, "google" is your friend. I personally don't feel this forum is the place to seek information on "armor penetrating" ammo.
What about location of shots? There is adequate information on "shot placement" that has been discussed here in MANY previous threads. Feel free to use the "SEARCH" feature to seek your information.
What would a 5.7 have accomplished? Again, "google" and "search" is your friend if interested in the ballistics capabilities of the 5.7 and ammo available for that particular weapon.
What would members of this forum have done? More than adequately discussed in previous threads. Again, use "search" to read these threads..
For some reason, I'm just really concerned as to a "Newbie" asking for this type of information. Call it my "spidey" intuition, or call me anti-social in my desires to provide this type of information. There's just a certain "bother" factor here that I can't quite put my finger on. Sorry for my rant, and perhaps my reply here is totally uncalled for, but JMO.
he didnt have armor.... that was the typical press reporting "facts"
He had a vest, leggings, groin protector, neck protector and helmet. Beyond that he was wearing a gas mask and started the incident with tear gas canisters.
You can't legally get armor piercing ammo and if you could, it would be a poor choice for any scenario you're actually likely to need a gun for because they do little tissue damage and are therefor poor man stoppers. A center fire rifle will penetrate soft body armor, but rifles are tough to fit in an ankle holster.
The only way to stop this guy would be a shot to the face. Tough to do when your eyes are being filled with tear gas and he's armed with a rifle to return more accurate fire than you can produce.
Also, you'd need a full sized gun to make that kind of shot, preferably with a laser due to the distance, low light and low visibility. Most people I've shot with have trouble hitting the size of target required for that at the range it would have to be made under ideal circumstances with no stress at a range. Your pocket .380 or J frame is just going to make you a target and get you killed faster.
This is a scenario where bugging out is much more likely to save your skin than returning fire, IMHO.
For the 122nd time , he was wearing a tac vest. The guy that sold it to him said that in an interview the day or two after. I still don't think he used tear gas either judging from the people coming out of the theatre. Didn't see anyone coughing uncontrollably or vomiting.
Also... he had smoke grenades, NOT TEAR GAS
Wow, just a whole lotta wrong there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainPacker
That is how you play to win. You take scenario's that have happened and develop plans of action. Without the ability to formulate plans you will likely be unable to adjust to the moment and plan as yo go.Quote:
Originally Posted by multistage
I guess that is also why I carry a fighting gun, I may never need it, but if I do....
Says who?Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainPacker
A 380 or J-frame would penetrate the face shield on a gas mask quite easily. Some people would even have a better than average chance of making the shot. Other people would be better off just to speak for themselves. :rolleyes:
I will agree that the best option is this situation would be to get low & try to get out if at all possible. However, depending on the lay out of the theater, where you are sitting & how it all went down, you may not have any choice except to make the best defense possible.
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If he was really armored up head to toe like they say... then the gas mask was the ***** in the armor. I think a lightsaber would've been most effective.:starwars: