Bad: Gun drawn during fight near Palm Bay Publix

This is a discussion on Bad: Gun drawn during fight near Palm Bay Publix within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by OldVet So in TX one must go quietly into the night or face charges? No, even here in FL a firearm is ...

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Thread: Bad: Gun drawn during fight near Palm Bay Publix

  1. #16
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    So in TX one must go quietly into the night or face charges?

    No, even here in FL a firearm is not an appropriate response to a verbal argument. But once an assault starts, someone has escalated to violence. And violence is a bad thing.
    When you get into it with another and there are words or pushing and shoving they call it "mutual combat and you can't claim self defense

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  3. #17
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    Even with the police report, there isn't enough information to really make a judgement. Is it possible that Mercado made threats that caused Dimsey to fear for his life? For example, if Mercado said "Man, I'm going to kill you" then struck him, it is possible Dimsey did legitimately fear for his life, and IMO would be justified to draw his weapon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    Being FL; I can't comment on their laws but here in Texas he would have been illegal too because there is "mutual combat" and a 'verbal confrontation". You can't antagonize the situation by verbally assault.

    There is a thing we call being the adult; put the testosterone in your pocket and stand down. You know you have the upper hand (gun) so why push it to the point where you night need to use it.
    Same here in Nebraska.

    He may not have liked it but he could have stood down. IMO he was carrying a gun for all the wrong reasons. Whether it is a sharp butter knife, ice pick or a gun, if you go out and use it to attack and do harm to people then you have become the BG. I am going to guess this guy Dimsey has no fighting skill and just thought he could replace that with the threat of a gun. Most likely he has watched too many movies.

    In any case I am sure that his gun carry days are over. But for the record I wasn't there and don't know all the details. And we all know, or should know, that it's the details that count.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithls1 View Post
    Still, if the other guy baited him, while not necessarily illegal, it was a stupid thing to do.
    It's always a stupid thing to bait a person who is armed But every criminal "baits" his intended victim (in one way or another)..

    But we are more adult than to respond to bait which may cause the trap to snap down on our necks rather than the criminal's...
    All that said....
    It could be worse.
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  6. #20
    Ex Member Array NotMallNinja's Avatar
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    As others have said, there is too little right now to make an informed assessment.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    It's always a stupid thing to bait a person who is armed But every criminal "baits" his intended victim (in one way or another)..

    But we are more adult than to respond to bait which may cause the trap to snap down on our necks rather than the criminal's...
    I was referring to the gun holder baiting the unarmed man, looking for an excuse to pull it out. Still I most certainly agree that we should not allow ourselves to be baited. It seems like there were mistakes on both sides. Mercado should never have let Dimsey goad him into taking a swing.

  8. #22
    Member Array Fisher10's Avatar
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    The suspect Derek Dimsey is really easy to find on facebook. https://www.facebook.com/dfareal1
    He doesn't look like an outstanding citizen of FL.

  9. #23
    Ex Member Array barstoolguru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Even with the police report, there isn't enough information to really make a judgement. Is it possible that Mercado made threats that caused Dimsey to fear for his life? For example, if Mercado said "Man, I'm going to kill you" then struck him, it is possible Dimsey did legitimately fear for his life, and IMO would be justified to draw his weapon.
    Here is a judgment I can make....$$$$$$$$.....guilty or not.... when you get arrested it will cost you big so I say shut up and walk unless your pride is worth about 10 grand
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  10. #24
    Member Array wraithls1's Avatar
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    Like the Quote Says:
    "I dont carry a gun looking for a fight. I carry a gun for the fight I never wanted to be in"

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    Avoid confrontation at all costs.

  12. #26
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    A wee bit of overreaction?
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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Even with the police report, there isn't enough information to really make a judgement. Is it possible that Mercado made threats that caused Dimsey to fear for his life? For example, if Mercado said "Man, I'm going to kill you" then struck him, it is possible Dimsey did legitimately fear for his life, and IMO would be justified to draw his weapon.


    agree. one other aspect that hasn't been discussed is a possible disparity of force. it seems unlikely in this case, since there was one participant on each side, and the gun owner was 29 years old, but if he was 5'5" and 125 pounds and his opponent was 6'3", 250 pounds, he might have a better case.



    his behavior still appears stupid to me, though. if you are carrying deadly force, you can, and should be held to a higher standard of conduct.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by barstoolguru View Post
    When you get into it with another and there are words or pushing and shoving they call it "mutual combat and you can't claim self defense
    I really dislike generalizations of vague "statutes." Someone pulls a gun and the other side pulls a gun, has that then become "mutual" thus no self defense allowed? I think not. If attacked by hand, is there a "legally required" number of blows to be taken before defending one's life?

    If someone goes hands on with me, regardless of whom or why, I'm going into "repel" mode, the extent determined by the individual and situation at the time. Few encounters are non-mutual, most take two parties to some extent. Mutual or not, allowed or not, I'm not going to subjected to a beating by anyone. I may not win, but I'm going to do my best to ensure the other party concludes a second attempt isn't worth it.

    Because none of us were there and we don't know what it was about or what threats may or may not have been communicated, none of us know whether this was a "justifiable" use of firearms or not, thus the investigation that is sure to follow. Further charges may or may not be brought against either or both. I think it best to let those entrusted with that to resolve the matter rather than some sort of media (including forums), such as the the case with the "Z" affair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wraithls1 View Post
    “The law does not allow for the presentation of deadly force in every situation. It is certainly not justified as the response to a simple punch. The use of deadly force requires a much greater presentation of force than what was presented in this incident.”
    It has been decided (atleast in Texas) that the presentation of a firearm is not the same as using the firearm. Showing a firearm is not using deadly force.


    Punch a cop, see if he doesn't draw a gun down on you.
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  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuss View Post
    It has been decided (atleast in Texas) that the presentation of a firearm is not the same as using the firearm. Showing a firearm is not using deadly force.


    Punch a cop, see if he doesn't draw a gun down on you.
    It could be determined to be assault with a deadly weapon though. "Using" it, by FL definition is having it "in hand."
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