What should I have done ?

This is a discussion on What should I have done ? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm not bagging on the original question. I just don't get what in this scenario is making a lot of people not answer with a ...

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Thread: What should I have done ?

  1. #16
    Member Array AceRider's Avatar
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    I'm not bagging on the original question.

    I just don't get what in this scenario is making a lot of people not answer with a resounding "HELL NO," don't approach a guy showing a concealed weapon on the presumption that he's a good guy, licensed to carry, and simply needs a whisper that conceal better.

    I honestly don't get it.

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  3. #17
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    Sounds like you did good. Not everyone can be judged by the way he/ she dresses.
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  4. #18
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    AceRider,

    Since neither of us were there, we can only go on the info supplied by the person who was.

    Maybe I'm over reading his post, but it sounds to me like he was being observant, in that he not only spotted the weapon, but was able to ID it. It didn't sound to me like anyone else was aware it was showing. (Again, just from reading the info supplied.)

    He didn't seem to get any visual clues as to the intent of the person with the weapon, one way or the other. In the absence of any "vibes" or other subliminal message from his observation, he chose what I'd consider a prudent, measured decision.

    I think without something "telling his gut" that this was indeed a "crime about to happen," the right thing was done.

    I would go so far as to say that if he felt it was the start of something bad, he probably would have called it in. But he gave NO indication that this was the case.

    Again, in situations like this one, there isn't a "hard, fast rule." It's a judgement call for the person actually there.

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  5. #19
    Member Array Cliffh's Avatar
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    I wasn't saying I'd assume he's a good guy, just that if I haven't seen him/her do anything suspicious/illegal, what's to worry about? Other than keeping an eye on him, that is.

    Anyway, in this case at least, the guy seemed as if he was an adult. He can take care of himself, I'm not his baby sitter. Especially if OC is legal in his local. It's just none of my business how he decides to carry.

    Re: my previous, not only should everyone carry, it should be legal to OC everywhere. IMO, RAH said it well: "An armed society is a polite society." (That may not be an exact quote).

  6. #20
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    Well open carry is allowed here, so I wouldn't have worried about it either way. Assuming a CCW only state I wouldn't say a thing to him and be on my way.

    The OP described a typical construction worker. They probably stopped to fill up their truck and grab a quick lunch and/or maybe some cold drinks. That would be my assumption as to why they were dressed like construction workers and loitering outside a stop-n-rob.

    I haven't heard of any 7-11s robbed around lunch hour by a bunch of construction guys, so my initial threat level would be pretty low. If I can see eyes that will be my indicator as to if they are ne're do wells or just some guys taking a break, one of whom is carrying conceald for whatever reason. It would also determine if I dropped a dime to the police or not. However, most likely I would not.
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  7. #21
    Senior Member Array jofrdo's Avatar
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    In my book, a construction worker has as much right to carry as I do. Why judge him a bad guy because he has scroungy clothes on? He's not going to wear the latest Paris fashions if he's digging ditches for a living. Let's keep open minds and remember "innocent until proven guilty." That said, I'm not advocating walking around in condition white. In Virginia, I do see citizens carrying openly, about once every other month; it's legal here. I don't approach them, but neither do I judge them as potential criminals; just honest citizens living, and ready to protect, their lives.

  8. #22
    Member Array tnoisaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madmike View Post
    That would be a rather "iffy" situation to be in. As was said, I'm sure I would appreciate someone letting me know (discretely) if I was inadvertently displaying my G23, someone else might not.

    All you can do in such a situation is follow your instinct, which you apparently did. I don't think I'd try to make up some "hard & fast rule," as they are seldom a good idea. Fine for the classroom, but real life has too many variables for such rules.

    Your instinct told you to let it go, I'd be satisfied with that, no real reason to second-guess yourself. Under different circumstances, you might go the other way, and be right also.

    None of us were there, so we don't know how the scene might have looked (and felt) to us.

    .
    Ditto on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragman View Post
    With all due respect -

    I would say that the very fact that the OP gave these guys the once over showed that he was condition yellow. Running off to the cops every time you see a gun is more like condition sheep to me.

    He evaluated the situation, noted the gun, upped his threat level and continued on his way. Hence why he did not engage. Exactly what he should have done. Be a good witness. Thats what we also say.
    Another good call.
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  9. #23
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    Remember...

    you're not a cop (are you?). It's is really none of your business.

    I tend to agree that saying anything, which could possibly 'stir the pot', is not worth it. We have all read about instances where 'John Q. Citizen' calls the police on someone who is with his kids in the Foodmart parking lot and the wind lifts his shirt to show a weapon for 2 seconds...Argh...a man with a gun? Don't we all feel that that is a little over reactive?

    In this case, I would keep my comments to myself and make a determination...BG, waiting to pull a robbery?...or another everyday guy with a gun who probably has a permit! (and I wouldn't ask him for his permit...that would be another stupid question).

    If you determine he could REALLY be a BG, leave quickly and call 911.

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  10. #24
    Member Array AceRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jofrdo View Post
    In my book, a construction worker has as much right to carry as I do. Why judge him a bad guy because he has scroungy clothes on? He's not going to wear the latest Paris fashions if he's digging ditches for a living. Let's keep open minds and remember "innocent until proven guilty." That said, I'm not advocating walking around in condition white. In Virginia, I do see citizens carrying openly, about once every other month; it's legal here. I don't approach them, but neither do I judge them as potential criminals; just honest citizens living, and ready to protect, their lives.
    Why do you assume that the people you see carrying are honest citizens? I really don't get this.

    Unless they are your friends, anyone armed should be a potential concern to you under the rules of condition yellow.

    I would never walk past some guy on the street carrying a shotgun and just say to myself "exercising his rights; good for him." I'd presume danger.

    Unless I'm at the range or know someone, another openly armed person would make me nervous. I guess igorance is bliss...
    Last edited by AceRider; September 25th, 2006 at 05:25 PM. Reason: I'm calling myself ignorant, not you. I'm happy not knowing someone else is armed is what I'm saying.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    From what you described, it sounds like you did exactly the right thing. You don't know them and they don't know you, so why take a chance, especially when the one thing you DO know is at least one of these guys is carrying.

    As for him being unaware he's showing, maybe he isn't aware. On the other hand, maybe he does know and doesn't care. The way you described the situation, it doesn't sound like he was too concerned about being exposed. You also said he had a number of people (co-workers, friends?) with him. IF they are his friends, one of them will notice and point it out to him. Unless you had no choice or it affected you directly in some way, you did the safe and smart thing by just going your own way.
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  12. #26
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceRider View Post
    What happened to condition yellow - why do you assume this guy is legally carrying?

    What if you approached him and whispered "you're showing your weapon" and he put it in your face?

    I would follow the lead of the famous dentist and get the hell away from any one I saw carrying a piece. I'm not going to assume he's legal. Why should I?
    I don't remember the original poster saying anything about what "condition" he was in (he must have been in something other than white if he noticed the guys gun and remembered possible discriptions of the individuals, or whether the guy was legal or not. In fact, I'd assume the guy showing wasn't legal - I'd rather be safe than sorry - and go my own way unless I was forced to do otherwise.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane

  13. #27
    Member Array sjp2452's Avatar
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    Pull out ye old cell phone and pretend to have a conversation with a buddy. "Yeah, so I'm thinkin' about picking up an HK to conceal" (in an audible voice). ;)

    Seriously, I probably would have done just what you did. Seeing "a man with a gun" means nothing unless he's doing something illegal with it.

  14. #28
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    No Oc here

    Here in Fl. OC isn't allowed. I would have walked on by and when I was in my car I'd make sure I could give descriptions. Maybe the wind blew his shirt. I don't know, wasn't there. But if any law enforcement saw it, you can be sure something would be said. The bad guy's sure don't want what they carry to be seen.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array Devone6's Avatar
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    Because someone is carrying a gun does not make them a bad guy, likewise just because they are not using it in a crime does not make them a good guy. If an LEO observes the gun and OC is not allowed in FL then they will handle it. You did the right thing, IMO, you observed the gun, mentally noted the surronding environment, and as many have already stated, went with your instinct which is all anyone can do.

  16. #30
    Member Array stevetim's Avatar
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    If you were really concerned, you would never confront an armed person you don't know. You can never guess the outcome. If you think there is a problem, you should call local PD. Some people will jump on this decision and flame it. But you know what, unless the jurisdiction you are in allows open carry, his weapon should be concealed from public view at ALL times.

    If I accidentally presented my weapon to someone without knowing it, and they called the police, I would understand. My weapon should never be in view of them to begin with.

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