am i at work?

This is a discussion on am i at work? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If you guys/girls couldn't tell by my 'nickname' I'm an ER doc.... more specifically an EMS doctor ( pre hospital, ambulance, events,etc..) There is a ...

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Thread: am i at work?

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    Member Array erdocsg's Avatar
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    Exclamation am i at work?

    If you guys/girls couldn't tell by my 'nickname' I'm an ER doc.... more specifically an EMS doctor ( pre hospital, ambulance, events,etc..) There is a big event in my county this weekend where I will be working the first aid tent. It is for a concert with the headliner , how should i say politically...may spark violence.
    The county has asked me to work the first aid tent as a pre hospital provider for the county/state, so i am not necessarily working for my hospital BUT we asked to dress profesional WITH hospital ID...so now I am affiliated with my hospital and they will be the ones that would cover malpractice (in a bad outcome). Dilemma: having to walk to/from my car from a distance at night after a rowdy ( probably intoxicated) concert event and have to work the rowdy event with 'patrons' probably carrying their own illegal protection firearms.
    I can ask the medical supervisor of the event, but that would put me on their radar for possibly carrying, especially if they say "no", which i'm sure they would.
    dilemma 2: if i carry concealed, and noted by anyone, i can probably loose my job since I am working under their malpractice.....and their should be a police presence
    or i can carry OC spray ( to put on someones salad).

    some responses I can forsee:a) better to carry and not need it , and if you need it your job is secondary b) hospitals are notorious for being very strict about this, you may loose your job, especially if you don't use your weapon and someone sees you with one. c) if something happens and you don't have it... you are royally screwed.

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    OK, so you are going to be in a tent with a large crowd outside the tent for most of the time. The tent will preclude your knowing what is behind your target. Pretty risky to take a shot there. Also, if the crowd is as rowdy as you say - not doubting it - you will be treating drunks or drugged up people within arms reach. These folks are not known for their judgement, so a gun grab, intentinoally or otherwise, is more than a remote possibility. In that circumstance, I would prefer my weapon to be secured by more than a holster.

    Outside the tent, you may be better able to evaluate what's behind your target, but getting a clear shot with a large crowd around could still be an issue.

    I would ask if they could provide the tent workers with 1) parking close to the tent and 2) armed security (cops) to escort them to their cars.

    Are the Hells Angles providing security at this event???
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    I think technically you are at an extension of your hospital. Often those med tents are nearby the police "headquarters", it would be good if you were next to each other. How about security for your tent, you probably have them for your regular ER.

    Aside from that you're still faced with the pesky problem of walking to your vehicles after the concert. Beforehand, maybe talk to the OIC and see if one of them would give y'all a ride or escort to your cars?

    Flashlight and pepper spray might work if needed, or either incite the crowd against you.

    Other than deep concealment. I'm fresh out of ideas. Good luck.
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    Tough one. I think I would carry. Hopefully you have a small weapon for total concealment?

    Question, are you getting paid? If you are you are at work. Although you may be on salary I suppose.
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    I'd contact the LE agency responsible for providing coverage for the event and the event organizers.

    Let them know your concerns--remind them that if they had family members in the first aid tent, how would they want the place secured? Also, you shouldn't have to remind the LEOs that you (and your staff) take care of them after they get shot--that alone should highten the sensitivity of "Hey, we need to take care of the doc"....
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    mkh
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    As much as I hate to say this is one time you should go unarmed. Too many issues involved as others pointed out to make,this a safe carry situation.
    Last edited by mkh; August 28th, 2012 at 10:56 AM. Reason: Spelling
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    Distinguished Member Array Once's Avatar
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    I would try and get a LEO escort at the end of the day. Maybe carry [ dare i say it?] in a hip pack under your scrubs

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    How do you get paid? Not to pry, but if a check to you personally from the government entity may be the difference. Independent contractor vs. subcontractor issue. I do not think hospital ID automatically makes you "on the job". Many hospital employees have their badge on to and from work, they are not on the job then. Also, what nimrod in your hospital's risk management department lets you wear hospital ID when in the employ of another party? Nothing like opening up a whole can of worms from an ostensible agency perspective.

    OC spray/baton are options also.
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    Does your state restrict carrying at certain events? In those that do often the parking lot/adjacent space is considered restricted as well.

    I would relook your state's laws first. Second I would weigh the risk. Third I would see what alternatives might exist (coordinate for escorts, non-lethal means etc.).

    Given what I know so far I would not carry. I would look to non-lethal (and legal) alternatives and try to secure an armed escort.

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    Senior Member Array rmilchman's Avatar
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    I assume you are talking about the concert in Philly this weekend. I think I would request that an officer be in the tent at all times and leave your gun at home.
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    Keep the laughing gas handy; that should take care of any situation that comes up

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    1. Will you be legal to carry there. If not legal, then don't carry. If legal see question 2.
    2. Who is paying you? If not the hospital, then you are not working for them. See question 3.
    3. Concealed means concealed. If it is legal and it is concealed, then know one will know about it unless you have to use it.
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    Who's the headliner?

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    Member Array Dono's Avatar
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    Nevermind. Quick Google search found it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dono View Post
    Who's the headliner?

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    Does your employer have a written policy prohibiting carrying firearms? If so, then that policy probably affects your decision. If the County has asked you to perform these duties, then why not just dress professionally without hospital ID? It seems like the County is covering your pay for this event. In that case, if your state laws don't prohibit carry, I would say to carry concealed.
    Ben

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    I think, therefore I am armed.


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