Research Help on CC Saving Lives

This is a discussion on Research Help on CC Saving Lives within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Recently all the Malco Theaters around me posted signs against concealed carry. I was pretty upset about this in general not just because of Malco ...

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Thread: Research Help on CC Saving Lives

  1. #1
    Member Array khukuri's Avatar
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    Research Help on CC Saving Lives

    Recently all the Malco Theaters around me posted signs against concealed carry. I was pretty upset about this in general not just because of Malco but because there are so many places that don't allow it and in Arkansas you can be prosecuted if you ignore the sign. I'm trying to find real life stories or links where CC holders have used thier weapons to save lives or prevent a bad situation. I'm not looking for one on one or household stories but stories in public places like malls, resturants, etc. that I can use as backup or justification for CC holders to be able to carry their weapons more places. Seems like I remembered a story where a guy went into a mall with a rifle and then intent to harm people and a cc carrier saw him first and prevented a massacre. That's the kind of story that I would like to know about or if you have a link, would like that as well. It kills me that someplace like Malco would start posting these signs because of the incident in Colorado when that theater was posted and no sign or policy would have prevented the shootings but a responsible cc individual could have prevented so many from dying. I don't know how much good it will do but I'm going on a letter writing or education campaign to try and support my points.

    Edit: Sorry meant to put this in the Concealed Carry section but clicked on the wrong thing and don't know how to move it.

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  3. #2
    Ex Member Array CharlesMorri's Avatar
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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Check Backwoods Magazine (online), for numerous articles written by Massad Ayoob. He's also got a book entitled The Ayoob Files, about situations people found themselves in.

    John Lott's books might help you, if conducting research on justification. I'd suggest starting with More Guns, Less Crime.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #4
    Member Array Glhadiator's Avatar
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    Good luck with your quest. This might help:

    Guns Save Lives - Stories of Self Defense

    Serve my country, swear an oath to protect it, pay my taxes, fly old glory in the front yard, love and protect my family, honor the vets before me and help fellow americans in need.
    By definition my country now calls me a radical

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    New Member Array SSGAlex's Avatar
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    NRA's American Rifleman blog The Armed Citizen Blog | by: NRA Staff

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    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Are they posted correctly?

    Must state "carrying a handgun is prohibited" exactly and be at the entrance.

    I'll check and see if the NE Ark Malco's are now posted as well.

    It'll be better to fight this from both sides of the state.

    There are a few other well-known members here from Ark. as well who would probably enlist.
    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
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    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    If pilots had been allowed to CC on 9/11, thousands of lives could have been saved. Just a thought.

    Google: Jeanne Assam, Tacoma Mall, Trolley Square Mall, Tyler Texas Courthouse shooting, Appalachian School of Law shooting, Pearl Mississippi school shooting.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    If pilots had been allowed to CC on 9/11, thousands of lives could have been saved. Just a thought.

    Google: Jeanne Assam, Tacoma Mall, Trolley Square Mall, Tyler Texas Courthouse shooting, Appalachian School of Law shooting, Pearl Mississippi school shooting.
    Yup.

    The surest way for BG's to have greatest likelihood of succeeding is to surround them with indifferent victims who have little likelihood of being able to do anything to stop them. And the surest way for BG's to fail is to surround them with determined citizens who have every ability to stop them cold.

    Old school, baby. Old school.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #9
    Senior Member Array kerberos's Avatar
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    Properly posted in Jonesboro...

    Signs on every door.

    They even go above and beyond and list the state statute number.

    I took a few pix and I'll try to get them posted.
    "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain" Robert Jordan
    USMC veteran
    Glock 19 Gen 4
    Si hoc legere scis, nimis eruditionis habes

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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Appalachian School of Law
    In seconds Odighizuwa had killed the school dean, a professor and one student. Three other students were shot as well, one in the chest, one in the stomach and one in the throat.

    Many students heard the shots. Two who did were Mikael Gross and Tracy Bridges. Mikael was outside the school having just returned to campus from lunch when he heard the shots. Tracy was inside attending class. Both immediately ran to their cars. Each had a handgun locked in the vehicle.James Eaves-Johnson wrote about this fact one week later in The Daily Iowan. He wrote: “A Lexus-Nexis search revealed 88 stories on the topic, of which only two mentioned that either Bridges or Gross was armed.” This 2002 article noted “This was a very public shooting with a lot of media coverage.” But the media left out information showing how two students with firearms ended the killing spree.

    Pearl High School
    Luke Woodham was a troubled teen. He felt no one really liked him. In 1997 he murdered his mother and put on a trench coat. He filled the pockets with ammunition and took a handgun to the Pearl High School in Pearl, Mississippi. In rapid succession killed two students and wounded seven others.

    What Woodham hadn’t planned for was the actions of Assistant Principal Joel Myrick. Myrick heard the gun shots. He couldn’t have a handgun in the school. But he did keep one locked in his vehicle in the parking lot. He ran outside and retrieved the gun.

    As Myrick headed back toward the school Woodham was in his vehicle headed for his next intended target. Myrick aimed his gun at the shooter. The teen crashed his car when he saw the gun. Myrick approached the car and held a gun to the killer who surrendered immediately. There would be no further victims that day, thanks to armed resistance.

    Edinboro, PA
    Many people probably forgot about the shooting in Edinboro, Pennsylvania. It was a school graduation dance that Andrew Wurst entered to take out his anger on the school. First he shot teacher John Gillette outside. He started shooting randomly inside the restaurant where the 240 students had gathered.

    It was restaurant owner James Strand, armed with a shot gun, who captured the shooter and held him for police.

    Trolley Square Shopping Mall, SLC
    The mall was a self-declared “gun free zone” forbidding patrons from carrying weapons. He wasn’t worried. In fact he appreciated knowing that his victims couldn’t defend themselves.

    He opened fire even before he got inside killing his first victims immediately outside the front door. As he walked down the mall hallway he fired in all directions. Several more people were shot inside a card store immediately inside the mall. The shooter moved on to the Pottery Barns Kids store.

    What he didn’t know is that one patron of the mall, Kenneth Hammond, had ignored the signs informing patrons they must be unarmed to enter. He was a police officer but he was not on duty and he was not a police officer for Salt Lake City. By all standards he was a civilian that day and probably should have left his firearm in his vehicle.

    It’s a good thing he didn’t. He was sitting in the mall with his wife having dinner when he heard the shots. He told her to hide and to call 911 emergency services. He went to confront the gunman. The killer found himself under gun fire much sooner than he anticipated. From this point on all his effort was to protect himself from Hammond, he had no time to kill anyone else. Hammond was able to pin down the shooter until police finally arrived and one of them shot the man to death.

    Virginia Tech
    The Virginia Tech massacre was a textbook example of the failure of government. The killer was a deranged individual. People who dealt with him were terrified of him. He was reported to campus police several times. Professors reported him, students reported him, and the government bureaucrats who run the school said there was nothing they could do. They were stifled by regulations and rules at every turn.

    They couldn’t tell the parents of the killer, that would violate regulations on privacy. They basically couldn’t do very much. The killer was sent to a mental institution by a judge. But the school had to let him back on campus, regulations you know. Regulations did exist to forbid firearms on campus. That disarmed the victims not the killer. Lot of good that did.

    Santana High School (CNN.com - Suspect had talked about shooting at school - March 5, 2001)
    Student John Schardt said the freshman boy arrested in the shooting was smiling when he allegedly emerged from a restroom in the school's social sciences building with a gun. (see video)
    "He was looking around, smiling, with his weapon. He fired two more shots and went back in," Schardt said. He said authorities with guns drawn arrested the suspect in the bathroom.
    "He had an evil kind of sadistic demeanor to him," Schardt said.
    Authorities said the alleged gunman reloaded his .22-caliber revolver at least once.
    Robert Clark was a parent, he was at the school, with his wife, to register his daughter for attendance when the shooting happened. He was also an off-duty police officer who was carrying a weapon. Jim Fotis, of Law Enforcement Alliance of America says that Clark: “courageously acted to save lives by confronting the armed killer, ordering him to surrender and preventing him from killing or harming countless others.”

    Not Sure
    Shawn Clark was an off-duty police officer when he was went to deliver some milk to a day care center. He expects children but finds a knife-wielding felon inside the building. Sure it wasn’t a shooting but a criminal with a knife can still kill a lot of kids in a very short time. Clark and the man fought, Clark shot him twice, still the man fled the scene but was apprehended soon after.

    Utah guns in schools
    Like many states, Utah enacted a concealed-handgun licensing law in 1995. Unlike most states, Utah did not make schools an exclusion zone for lawful carrying. Not only a teacher on duty, but also a parent coming to pick up a child from school, can lawfully carry a concealed handgun in a Utah school building — after, of course, passing a background check and safety training. (See Utah Code sect. 76-10-505.5. In 2003, the legislature expanded the law, by allowing principals to authorize firearms possession by individuals who did not have a concealed-handgun carry permit.)
    After eleven years of experience in Utah, we now have exactly zero reported problems of concealed handgun licensees misusing guns at school, or students stealing guns from teachers, or teachers using their licensed firearms to shoot or threaten students. During this same period, we also have had exactly zero mass murders in Utah schools.

  12. #11
    Member Array khukuri's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the replies. Now I just have to sit down and start going through all of this. Keep them coming though.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khukuri View Post
    :SNIP: I'm not looking for one on one or household stories but stories in public places like malls, resturants, etc. that I can use as backup or justification for CC holders to be able to carry their weapons more places. :SNIP:
    This approach may work on individuals who are not aware of the lives that have been saved or the crimes that have been prevented by armed citizens. If you are looking to influence the opinions of business owners you might be using the wrong logic. Most business owners are looking at their costs and not your safety. If ensuring your safety by allowing you to carry weapons might cost them more in lawsuits, insurance costs or lost business due to customers that do not feel comfortable around firearms then safety will be placed on the back burner every time.

    Michael

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    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    This isnt about CC saving lives, but about how the theater might have been picked because of the signs. Hope it helps....

    Did Colorado shooter single out Cinemark theater because it banned guns? | Fox News
    Don"t let stupid be your skill set....

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    VIP Member Array SmokinFool's Avatar
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    There are so many stories. BUT - most people choose to ignore such information. They like to keep their lives as simple as possible. To them, "No Guns allowed" means they are safe. Poor, stupid sheeple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Check Backwoods Magazine (online), for numerous articles written by Massad Ayoob. He's also got a book entitled The Ayoob Files, about situations people found themselves in.

    John Lott's books might help you, if conducting research on justification. I'd suggest starting with More Guns, Less Crime.
    I second John Lott's book. If you read that, you probably won't need much other research.

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