How Do Authorities Solve This: Both Parties Claim Self-Defense? :

This is a discussion on How Do Authorities Solve This: Both Parties Claim Self-Defense? : within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by CanuckQue Someone has seen "Never, ever, ever, ever talk to the police" And Brad should watch this talk . That said, my ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    Someone has seen "Never, ever, ever, ever talk to the police" And Brad should watch this talk.

    That said, my understanding is that in self-defense scenarios, and early claim of "I was acting in self-defense" is considered exculpatory. This is why the instructions in an SD shooting are to 1) wait for the police 2) give them your gun 3) say you believed your life was in danger 4) lawyer up.
    Don't misunderstand me, Canuck, I'm not advocating spilling your guts to the police. All I'm saying is "NOTHING you say can be used to help you in a court of law." isn't necessarily true.
    I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it.
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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    [/B]

    I'm not a lawyer (but I have seen every episode of "Law and Order") and I think that's not true. Things people have said on the scene get testified to in court by LEO's and it is in their favor.

    I think the point you are trying to make (if I may be so bold) is that LEO's aren't there to help you, and that's true... but neither are they there to hurt you. In a perfect world they are there to get to the truth, whether that helps or hurts you.
    Defense lawyer: "Officer Smith, you testified that my client said he killed the man?"

    "Yes."

    "Did my client say anything else?"

    "Uh, yes."

    "Then, Officer Smith, by all means--tell the jury everything my client said..."
    Brad426 likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Remember: You're being watched!
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    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Sometimes it will boil down to who the judge or jury believes. Decades ago I found myself in a SD situation with multple BGs. Since I was sober, I didn't lose and got the best of them, they all claimed SD. (BGs will almost always "CLAIM" self defense if they think they can get away with it.)

    Anyway, I was arrested for "assault with intent" because it was the word four BGs against one me. I made bail & went to court. But, thankfully I had a perfectly CLEAN record; while they all had long rap sheets. The judge also took their pro athlete size & ability and my 5'5" 130lb frame into account and just didn't believe I was insane enough to start the attack on four pro football players. (BTW; the responding officers didn't believe them from the start. But, because I was outnumbered & they wanted to file charges I was the one arrested.)

    This incident is just another reason I don't drink or go out to clubs.

    -
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Defense lawyer: "Officer Smith, you testified that my client said he killed the man?"

    "Yes."

    "Did my client say anything else?"

    "Uh, yes."

    "Then, Officer Smith, by all means--tell the jury everything my client said..."
    There you go. And that scenario assumes the defense attorney has to ask. I have seen real-life trials (not just "Law and Order", although those are ripped from the headlines...) where the cop on the stand didn't need to be prompted to say things that were positive to the defense. And this, of course, doesn't take into account any case that wasn't taken to trial... maybe because of what the responding LEO's told to the DA.

    I am by no means naive enough to think the police are there to help me, but I stand by my statement that neither are they there to try and hurt me.
    Last edited by Brad426; September 29th, 2012 at 11:50 AM.
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  6. #20
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    Actually "Law and Order" is pretty realistic.... well all except the arrest part... More often the arrest is made at the perps home... never in an office, or a resturant, or a party. There's no need to embarass the perp.

    The O/P was asking how would the police investigate such a shooting, and it's turned into another "dont talk to the police thread" It seem that many people are fighting a criminal trail before the investigation is complete. As I may have said before... the idea is to not be arrested at the scene, and have NO criminal charges preferred against you. IMO most, like 99% of all the shooting's I've been party to the investigations the decision was made to charge or not charge before the crime scene was shut down. And thats what you want. Not to have to defend yourself in a criminal trial. Unless the S/D shooter commited a crime... The investigation will probably go their way. It's not just statements... It's also forensics, and proximity, and records, and a canvass, and some consultation.

    As long as your not in a place that women of the night frequent, or street pharmacies operate, and it's not 03:30 hrs, and your not tipsy. You should be golden. Now... If your carrying three gun's, wearing a ballistic resistant vest, carrying a can of O/C, a spyderco superblade, and a sure-fire night blind flashlight you may have a problem.

    The key word in investigating a possible self defense shooting is... Reasonable. Was the shooters actions reasonable.

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    VIP Member Array Secret Spuk's Avatar
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    Actually all the first few seasons of L&E were based on real cases... then they took creative license and made them into TV shows.

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    Criminal records were mentioned several times. The biggest difference would be my state issued CHL vs the bg's less than stellar record and lack of proper licensing.
    We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.

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    The one that is left alive is the winner....ding ding.....
    or should it be....bang bang....
    Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American GI. One died for your soul, the other for your freedom.

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    Quote Originally Posted by velo99 View Post
    The biggest difference would be my state issued CHL vs the bg's less than stellar record and lack of proper licensing.
    That's what I was thinking. I would expect the LEO's to take the position that everyone is lying to them and be prepared to take a ride and spend a less than comfortable night with them (if I wasn't hit).

  11. #25
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    I don't have a 3 page rap sheet for drugs, robbery,B&E etc.
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Spuk View Post
    I think it's an exelent question. As I've said before that proximity plays a big part in a shooting investigation. You are walking from a location to another with legitimate purpose. Going from a store lets say to your parked car. You may have the purchase, or a reciept from the store... In the time span mentioned someone from the store will remember you. Your car is still parked where you left it... the location of the shooting within the obvious route from store to car. Proximity would tend to prove your story to be true and correct. Your assailant probably wont have as perfect a provable reason for being at that place and time. And if he does... The entire investigation wont hinge on proximity. Any competent detective will conduct a canvass. There will be people who will have heard your shouts, and looked out a window. There will be witness' between the store and the crime scene. Your background, pedigre, and statement will be compared to the background, pedigre, and statement of the assailant. There will be forensic evidence leading to what actually happened. For example... as you say the peop fired several shots, and you fired one... that would tend to support your story. There will be ballistic evidence where the missed shots of the perp hit. their proximity would again support your version.
    Thanks - you make a lot of very good points. It's more than physical evidence of wounds.

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    Yet another example of advantages of a high capacity self-defense caliber edc vs. a .22.
    Brad426 likes this.
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Yet another example of advantages of a high capacity self-defense caliber edc vs. a .22.
    Ha! According to recent posts, it is unacceptable to call you the "T-word", but come on... that was awesome.
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  15. #29
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1956 View Post
    Yet another example of advantages of a high capacity self-defense caliber edc vs. a .22.
    LOL! You could use that with the jury!

    "Now, I ask you, ladies and gentleman to consider the argument that the pistol was being used 'for self-defense'. Who would use a .22 for self-defense? It strains credulity!"
    detective likes this.
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  16. #30
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanuckQue View Post
    LOL! You could use that with the jury!

    "Now, I ask you, ladies and gentleman to consider the argument that the pistol was being used 'for self-defense'. Who would use a .22 for self-defense? It strains credulity!"
    I actually OC'ed a 22 revolver for years when I was younger. (before CC laws) I even had to use it a time or two in attempted robbery attempts while working. So, I know one shot from a 22 can stop a BG in his tracks.

    If a 22 was all I could afford to buy & practice with, I would carry one gladly!

    -

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