How Do Authorities Solve This: Both Parties Claim Self-Defense? : - Page 5

How Do Authorities Solve This: Both Parties Claim Self-Defense? :

This is a discussion on How Do Authorities Solve This: Both Parties Claim Self-Defense? : within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You're correct- I am not a doctor. However my wife is. I'll share her thoughts on the the topic now. Going to the hospital to ...

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  1. #61
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    You're correct- I am not a doctor. However my wife is. I'll share her thoughts on the the topic now.

    Going to the hospital to escape the police at the scene won't help. The police will go to the hospital as well. If you aren't showing any signs of life threatening injury or duress you'll go through the triage process. This means you'll be sitting in the waiting room right along with the police officers that frequent the ED even for far less exciting situations than shootouts in the middle of the street. Whether you talk with them or not is up to you, but the hospital staff isn't going to help you avoid them.

    So again, I say do what you want to do. I personally am not going to the hospital unless I actually believe I need to seek medical attention.
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  2. #62
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    Not to get into the OP's complex scenario, but to just answer the question posed in the title, yes, police and prosecutors routinely deal with both sides claiming self-defense. A trained investigator takes both sides into account, and carefully considers any evidence.

    Amazingly enough, it even happens in domestic violence scenarios, when a big, strong guy tries to justify violence that clearly went far beyond any degree of reasonableness.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    Come on now. You may be able to claim you need medical attention due to the others (even though I disagree) but tunnel vision and adrenaline dump aren't going to kill you.

    If you want to get medical help, then do so. No doubt that due to stress your blood pressure and heart rate are going to be up. But don't think there aren't consequences. If I'm the responding officer and you want to go to the hospital I'll get you an ambulance and make sure you get there. Once you leave I will start wondering what you're trying to hide and why you lied to me if you don't appear to be in distress. Human nature is what it is, and that's where my nature would lead me.
    I doubt that - you will look and act as horrible as you feel. Why would they be suspicious? - the same physical phenomena manifest for Officers who are in a shooting, and police know that. This is a common reaction. Standard procedure for rapid heart-rate, difficulty breathing, sweating, exhibiting signs of disorientation: that person would get a 911 call and a fast trip to an ER anyplace, anytime he were in - and engaged in something as ordinary as shopping.

    At the scene of a shooting, with you like that, the police would likely call for med-help whether you requested it or not.

  4. #64
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    The Perfect Line That Sums Up SD Shottings

    I was sitting having a coffee with an an Officer sometime back. We were having a pleasant chat and I asked him some question about what one should do when the police arrive at a shooting you were in. He gave same advice mentioned here: "do exactly what you are told, you will probably be treated roughly, forced down or yelled down on the ground and cuffed, searched etc - don't resist", this kind of stuff.

    Then he paused and said while smiling and shaking his head just at the thought of such a situation:

    "Man I'll tell ya, if you shoot somebody YOU-ARE-GOING-TO-BE in a SxxxLOAD of trouble."

    (And he didn't mean if you made a mistake, he meant, Period - no matter what happened or how it turns out")

    I hear him saying that line in my head sometimes.

  5. #65
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    Detective, if you exhibit the signs you speak of then you need medical attention. But, believe it or not, not everyone responds like that. Some have a great feeling of euphoria... they just faced death and lived to tell the tale. Some people feel next to nothing in the aftermath. It depends on the individual, his experiences in life, and several other factors.

    If it helps, consider someone that has had several combat deployments under his belt. He's been shot at by snipers, RPGs, and AKs more times than he can count. He's cleared homes full of terrorists so often he could do it in his sleep. Now this person faces down a thug on the street. It isn't a new experience or even one of the more dangerous situations the individual has been in recently. There's no real reason to expect this person is going to feel much of anything when it is over. I personally know that after violent encounters I tend to laugh and smile a lot. I also get diarrhea of the mouth (and that's not a good thing at all!). One thing I've never experienced is a need to seek medical attention unless I was injured. But what's normal for me won't necessarily be normal for you.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    You're correct- I am not a doctor. However my wife is. I'll share her thoughts on the the topic now.

    Going to the hospital to escape the police at the scene won't help. The police will go to the hospital as well. If you aren't showing any signs of life threatening injury or duress you'll go through the triage process. This means you'll be sitting in the waiting room right along with the police officers that frequent the ED even for far less exciting situations than shootouts in the middle of the street. Whether you talk with them or not is up to you, but the hospital staff isn't going to help you avoid them.

    So again, I say do what you want to do. I personally am not going to the hospital unless I actually believe I need to seek medical attention.
    I think that's what most people are saying: you will need to go and will show signs - I know I posted that.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo_Four View Post
    Detective, if you exhibit the signs you speak of then you need medical attention. But, believe it or not, not everyone responds like that. Some have a great feeling of euphoria... they just faced death and lived to tell the tale. Some people feel next to nothing in the aftermath. It depends on the individual, his experiences in life, and several other factors.

    If it helps, consider someone that has had several combat deployments under his belt. He's been shot at by snipers, RPGs, and AKs more times than he can count. He's cleared homes full of terrorists so often he could do it in his sleep. Now this person faces down a thug on the street. It isn't a new experience or even one of the more dangerous situations the individual has been in recently. There's no real reason to expect this person is going to feel much of anything when it is over. I personally know that after violent encounters I tend to laugh and smile a lot. I also get diarrhea of the mouth (and that's not a good thing at all!). One thing I've never experienced is a need to seek medical attention unless I was injured. But what's normal for me won't necessarily be normal for you.
    True, people react in all sorts of ways under the same circumstances..

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by detective View Post
    Say for whatever reason you're walking somewhere after dark, could be just heading to your car, whatever - you're asked by two men walking on the other side of the street if you have any money. You say no and they cross over ahead of you towards a populated area 5 min away in the direction you were going. You attempt to quickly walk back the way you came,not as much street-life here but it's the only place to go, and you make plans to run to a house or scream help if they follow you this way. They do, you start to run, scream help, they run after you, , and out of breath you slow and face them and see one pull a gun out and start firing, it "pops" and you feel no hit, assume it's 22 or other low caliber and do the one thing available: pull your own gun and fire. You hit the guy, he's wounded but not critically but throws his gun away and lays prone. The Police arrive, and shortly after you begin to feel faint, ask for an ambulance, and then ask the cops to check for wounds around your stomach, where bad pain is starting. Sure enough, you've been hit, small hole but bleeding internally.

    Whenever the time comes to make a statement, yours is that the assailant fired first and then you shot him. But he makes the same statement: you pulled your gun out, you fired and hit him, to keep from getting shot again he had to pull out his .22 and start shooting.

    Now, how would forensics be able to tell who shot first. And wouldn't the Police be left with a "He said/She Said" situation?

    I imagine this may happen on occasion if the BG is not fatally wounded. Best defense is an offense - "HE shot first", (meaning You) I was trying to save my life and tried to shoot to keep from getting killed."

    How could anyone know what really happened in this kind of "double SD Claim"? Keep in mind too, the only witness may be the partner of the guy who was chasing you. It would be in his interest too to substantiate that you fired first. Beats a charge of robbery and participating in an attempted murder - you just claim you were attacked first and ACTED in SD.
    This is why shot placement is so important, when done properly, they do not shoot again after you do. Then, it is only your story that is told.
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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dV8r View Post
    This is why shot placement is so important, when done properly, they do not shoot again after you do. Then, it is only your story that is told.
    That's the old adage...

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    I have not read each post, but I did not see much about the physical evidence an officer would encounter within minutes of arriving.
    Both suspects claim self defense. One suspect has his weapon and a permit. Suspect two has no weapon and no permit. The focus is now on suspect number two, and he will not hold up well under questioning. When they find his weapon they will also find that it has been reported stolen and or used in the commission of another crime. He will probably have an arrest record for robbery, attempted robbery, resisting arrest, illegal possession of a weapon, and battery, and much more.

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