No-Gun signs in GA

This is a discussion on No-Gun signs in GA within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You do not understand the law and you are confusing what you think you understand. Originally Posted by ArmyMan Not only does every person have ...

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Thread: No-Gun signs in GA

  1. #61
    Member Array 2700's Avatar
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    You do not understand the law and you are confusing what you think you understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    Not only does every person have an inalienable right to self defense, but my state law reflects this as well.
    The sign doesn't say you can’t defend yourself. It states no firearms. And despite your foot stamping, that does not change the law. You have no "right" to carry on private property. Earlier you said, "Please notice how pro-sign folks will exchange 'carrying against a sign' with 'refusing to leave if asked' as though they are the same thing." Looks like you're confusing a few things yourself.



    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    The term is "social guest", and no, I'm not there as a social guest, I'm there as a "customer". As a customer I have certain protections while engaging in public commerce.
    The law states differently. You are unequivocally a guest. This is why you must leave when asked. You have no legal "right" to be in that store at all, much less with a firearm, regardless of what you call yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    The sign itself is an act of disrespect. A mature person has no choice but to ignore it as one ignores all acts of ignorant disrespect. I don't stoop down to the property owner's level by engaging in the silliness, I just ignore it and move on with my day.
    So you want to be part of the group that causes the law to change these signs giving them the force of law and getting people arrested if they happen not to see the sign and walk into the store. Excellent.
    tacman605 likes this.
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  3. #62
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    2700. I agree with your post.

    Armyman as we have discussed many times before. A business is private property and yes you are a customer but the definition of a customer would be one who purchases a consumer goods from a place of business but I believe the legal term since it is private property is "invitee". You are invited into the retail outlet to purchase goods or services and as an invitee you can be asked to leave at anytime. As you stated you are not saying you would not leave it asked to but I have enough respect for the business owner whether the sign carries the weight of law or not I would respect his wishes.

    As stated above the sign does not say you cannot defend yourself simply that a firearm is not allowed/welcome in the business. Either find another way to defend yourself or shop somewhere else. Easy as that.
    Ogre likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    You possess no "right" to carry a firearm.

    "Open to the public" only means the invitation to enter the property is implied. Other than that, it is the same as being on any other private property.
    Actually it's not and there are plenty of laws and regulations that say so.

    And I have a right to privacy....they have no business and CANNOT know what is on my person unless they use metal detectors or search people who come into the store. THere is an implied reasonable right to privacy as well. I used several examples, not all revolve around guns.

    As I said....they may object to many things or find many things offensive in/on patrons. However they dont know their thoughts, about the meth in their pockets, the 3 abortions that woman had, or anything else. The gun as an object of offense seems pretty random because as I also wrote earlier, it presents no hazard to anyone else in the business than other things privately carried on a person. You can always stab someone or scream Fire or yada yada yada....it's prejudice and ignorance and I prefer to fight such things in my way. I do tell business owners why I wont patronize them, if I choose not to shop there. (Sometimes it is insurance or franchise reasons, and not based in anti-gun sentiments).
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #64
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    Yes, you have an inalienable right to defend yourself, no necessarily to have a firearm. Inalienable rights are those you are endowed by your creator, they cannot be taken away-are felons not human? Are Brits not human? How bout Japanese? These people are not allowed to carry, nor are minors, are they all not endowed by there creator with inalienable rights? The second ammendment is just that an ammendment an add on, to prevent the GOVERNMENT from saying you can't have ARMS, a knife is an ARM (in this context), your hands are ARMS. The 2A merely states that the GOVERNMENT cannot deny you the right to use arms. It does not define those arms, property owners have a right to limit what happens on their property.

    I seem to recall a post where Armyman said he ignored private property owners rights by carrying on their property for contractor work. If im wrong i apologize. That property is not "open to the public". His stance of <I don't care about the property owners unsubstantiated silly desires> is perhaps false, maybe they are substantiated maybe the owner was shot by someone? How do you know what basis his desires have? He doesn't know "us" from anyone else, he has no idea of our competency or indeed suitability to possess a firearm. Therefore rather than waste time checking everyone, he says NO one may carry.

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    9MMare. Except business that are of a public utility in nature they are in fact privately owned. They may have a Board of Directors or single entity than controls them but they are still private property therefore you are expected to abide by the rules while on their premises.

    Law enforcement even has limited authority on private property. You can get in much more of a public venue as a Wal Mart parking lot but if you ever get into an accident on that parking lot the most you may get it a simple one page "Exchange of Information" type report, no ticket issued, no fault determined simply because they can't. Dependent on state laws of course.

    Yes you indeed have a right to privacy that is why you are not searched at the door but you are expected to adhere to whatever rules are posted in accordance with the owners wishes however as an example many stores, businesses and corporations in certain parts of the country restrict access and you have to pass through security measures in order to enter. Could an everyday store or business have you go through a metal detector, stop you at the door and ask you the purpose of your visit? You bet it is their premises and you are invited in as long as you follow there rules.

    As stated before they are not keeping the individual out it is the gun itself. They don't want them there for whatever reason it is up to them.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #66
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    ^^^
    That. What one owns is private, be it a home or business.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

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    I have no problem inviting someone I know has a CWFL and is armed into my home.

    Armyman--you are not invited. If you enter, you will be charged with felony tresspassing.

    (I think it's gonna get )
    tacman605 likes this.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyMan View Post
    It's also my right to ignore the sign and carry anyway.
    you can then be arrested for tresspassing when the owner asks you to leave, and you refuse.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogre View Post
    And just as you can ignore my signage (RIGHTS) I can ignore yours. Funny how the 2nd gets all your love but all the others do not. The property owner has rights does he not? He does not want guns on his property, what gives you the right to ignore him? I guess I can ignore you and your right to personal property, gimme your gun, you don't have a right to that, you cannot say what is done with it anymore, why? My rights are greater than yours so there....

    I want to see ALL signs have the force of LAW, you carry a gun on posted property, you lose your gun. See how stupid that sounds? Just as stupid as asking that all sign posters (1st ammendment) be FINED? What happened to personal property rights? The ability to decide what happens on YOUR property? Better yet, trespassers will be SHOT, there ya go, you are carrying on posted property, you are trespassing....you can then be shot...LOL
    naaa, give folks who carry a firearm, contrary to posted signs, a 5-second warning before the bullets fly.

  11. #70
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    you can then be arrested for tresspassing when the owner asks you to leave, and you refuse.
    Pythius. Yes you are correct you would be charged should you be asked to leave but in all fairness he did not say he would not leave if asked only that he would carry regardless of the owners wishes.
    pittypat21 and ArmyMan like this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  12. #71
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    Here is the legal definition of public and private property.

    Public property is any property that is controlled by a state or by a whole community. Private property is any property that is not public property. Private property may be under the control of a single person or by a group of persons jointly.[6]

    So by definition Wal Mart, Mom and Pop grocery stores and any other business that is not controlled by the state or whole community is under the control of the owner and we have to abide by their rules while there.
    OldVet and Ogre like this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  13. #72
    Ex Member Array Pythius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Here is the legal definition of public and private property.

    Public property is any property that is controlled by a state or by a whole community. Private property is any property that is not public property. Private property may be under the control of a single person or by a group of persons jointly.[6]

    So by definition Wal Mart, Mom and Pop grocery stores and any other business that is not controlled by the state or whole community is under the control of the owner and we have to abide by their rules while there.
    that is correct. If Walmart says "no-guns", you have to abide by their rules or they can deem you a trespasser, ask you to leave, and have you arrested and press charges against you if you don't leave.

    Private-property rights in this instance, trump the 2nd Amendment as the 2nd Amendment only covers GOVERNMENT regulation of firearms.

    now, if Walmart said "no black people with guns", then we would have a case.

    but simply saying "no-guns", is allowed.

  14. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Actually it's not and there are plenty of laws and regulations that say so.

    And I have a right to privacy....they have no business and CANNOT know what is on my person unless they use metal detectors or search people who come into the store. THere is an implied reasonable right to privacy as well. I used several examples, not all revolve around guns.

    As I said....they may object to many things or find many things offensive in/on patrons. However they dont know their thoughts, about the meth in their pockets, the 3 abortions that woman had, or anything else. The gun as an object of offense seems pretty random because as I also wrote earlier, it presents no hazard to anyone else in the business than other things privately carried on a person. You can always stab someone or scream Fire or yada yada yada....it's prejudice and ignorance and I prefer to fight such things in my way. I do tell business owners why I wont patronize them, if I choose not to shop there. (Sometimes it is insurance or franchise reasons, and not based in anti-gun sentiments).
    Your post has almost nothing to do with the subject Meth in pockets? Number of abortions? This is nothing more than obfuscating diatribe. Let's get back on track with your statement below that is relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Actually it's not and there are plenty of laws and regulations that say so.
    Really? Well then please name just one of those, "plenty of laws" that states you have a "right" to carry on someone's private property.
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  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I have no problem inviting someone I know has a CWFL and is armed into my home.

    Armyman--you are not invited. If you enter, you will be charged with felony tresspassing.
    That's more kind than a few others I know... He'd be shot.
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  16. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    You have no "right" to carry on private property.
    In SD, carrying a gun past a sign does not constitute trespassing, which was the claim. In other states, carrying past a sign is trespassing.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    You are unequivocally a guest.
    Employees and customers are not social guests. Different rules apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    This is why you must leave when asked.
    But I don't have to honor a gun-buster sign in SD.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2700 View Post
    You have no legal "right" to be in that store at all, much less with a firearm, regardless of what you call yourself.
    If no customer had 'a legal right to be' in any store, then every case of self defense which occurred in a store would result in a murder charge since the customer wasn't in a place he had a legal right to be.

    Customers have a right to do business with you when you're open to the public. You retain the right to close your doors to the public at any time.

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