Things your instructor told you

Its been to long ago to remember what my instructor said. I have not had an issue with any of the professional training I have had, nor any of the NRA instructors of late...I count myself lucky in that regard. Most here know me, I would say something....:image035:

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Originally Posted by QKShooter

If you draw a weapon on someone you must shoot them.

That is a downright dangerous school of thought especially for the good guy.
As is also: I will only draw my firearm if I intend to use it!

You don't know how many times I have read that on Internet forums. :blink:

If you think about it and still cannot figure out why both statements are patently absurd then you probably should not be carrying a firearm at all.

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I agree that the statements are absurd. But that does not make them incorrect in all cases. As I mentioned earlier, in Kansas up until about a year ago the law did say that if you draw a weapon on a person and did not shoot that you could be charged with brandishing. A person was charged and convicted under the law in Kansas. There was no exemption for self defense as there was under Oklahoma law.

Sometimes the laws are absurd.

Michael

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Originally Posted by mlr1m

I agree that the statements are absurd. But that does not make them incorrect in all cases. As I mentioned earlier, in Kansas up until about a year ago the law did say that if you draw a weapon on a person and did not shoot that you could be charged with brandishing. A person was charged and convicted under the law in Kansas. There was no exemption for self defense as there was under Oklahoma law.

Sometimes the laws are absurd.

Michael

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Absurd is an understatement. That's all but requiring that someone get shot.

My CCW Class instructor distributed a printed set of the Colorado statutes applicable to CCW along with the rest of the class notes.   He also included the URL to the always-up-to-date state web site with all the Colorado statutes.  In class we went over the statutes (the ones in effect at that time) line-by-line, with a discussion of what each line and paragraph meant and did not mean. 

Ok, so I live in Oklahoma and have my CCW class scheduled for next month, but I heard the same thing about brandishing, with the principle:

if you pull your weapon someone better die...

I suppose the logic is, if you pulled your weapon, and someone didn't die, it wasn't a life-and-death situation in the first place.

I will certainly be pressing my instructor (our class is scheduled with a 2A attorney) about this concept.

My question is this (possible scenario):

Bad guy approaches. I feel a threat and get my hand on concealed weapon. He draws a gun, and begins making threats. I draw mine, with the full intention of stopping the threat. Before I can squeeze the trigger he drops his gun and raises his hands, gets on his knees. I don't shoot. Overall an effective use of my CCW.

But was that brandishing? Wouldn't that be unlawful 'pointing' of my weapon?

Would love to know your thoughts...

-Eric

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Originally Posted by ericb327

Mine told me my box of Black Talons were cop killers and illegal. She was positive because she owned a gun shop and cops told her.

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I guess I'd better turn in my case of Winchester T-series (the descendant of the Black Talon) to my local PD right away!! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SoonerDad

Ok, so I live in Oklahoma and have my CCW class scheduled for next month, but I heard the same thing about brandishing, with the principle:

if you pull your weapon someone better die...

I suppose the logic is, if you pulled your weapon, and someone didn't die, it wasn't a life-and-death situation in the first place.

I will certainly be pressing my instructor (our class is scheduled with a 2A attorney) about this concept.

My question is this (possible scenario):

Bad guy approaches. I feel a threat and get my hand on concealed weapon. He draws a gun, and begins making threats. I draw mine, with the full intention of stopping the threat. Before I can squeeze the trigger he drops his gun and raises his hands, gets on his knees. I don't shoot. Overall an effective use of my CCW.

But was that brandishing? Wouldn't that be unlawful 'pointing' of my weapon?

Would love to know your thoughts...

-Eric

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It would be brandishing using the normal definition of the word. But under Oklahoma law it would be legal in the example you cited.

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TITLE 21 § 1279 MISDEMEANOR POINTING A FIREARM
Except for an act of self-defense, it shall be unlawful for any person to point any pistol or any other deadly weapon whether loaded or not, at any other person or persons. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall, upon conviction, be guilty of a misdemeanor punishable as provided in Section 1280 of this title.

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Notice the exception for self defense.

EDIT: Welcome to another Okie.

Michael

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Originally Posted by ericb327

Mine told me my box of Black Talons were cop killers and illegal. She was positive because she owned a gun shop and cops told her.

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That's awesome! Bloody freaking brilliant!

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Originally Posted by SoonerDad

Ok, so I live in Oklahoma and have my CCW class scheduled for next month, but I heard the same thing about brandishing, with the principle:

if you pull your weapon someone better die...

I suppose the logic is, if you pulled your weapon, and someone didn't die, it wasn't a life-and-death situation in the first place.

I will certainly be pressing my instructor (our class is scheduled with a 2A attorney) about this concept.

My question is this (possible scenario):

Bad guy approaches. I feel a threat and get my hand on concealed weapon. He draws a gun, and begins making threats. I draw mine, with the full intention of stopping the threat. Before I can squeeze the trigger he drops his gun and raises his hands, gets on his knees. I don't shoot. Overall an effective use of my CCW.

But was that brandishing? Wouldn't that be unlawful 'pointing' of my weapon?

Would love to know your thoughts...

-Eric

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My instructor was spot on, of course he also teaches new LEOs at CLEET. He gave everbody a copy of the OKSDA and went through it. He even discussed pulling your weapon and having the assilant stop or flee. In OK if the BG stops or runs off (and alot will when they see a weapon) you wont get charged with brandishing. However, shoot a fleeing BG in the back to avoid a "brandishing charge" and you'll most likley end up with a far worse charge. My advise read and re-read the laws in your state.

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Originally Posted by ArkhmAsylm

I guess I'd better turn in my case of Winchester T-series (the descendant of the Black Talon) to my local PD right away!! :rolleyes:

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Or the Ranger stx.

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Originally Posted by mlr1m

It would be brandishing using the normal definition of the word. But under Oklahoma law it would be legal in the example you cited.

Notice the exception for self defense.

EDIT: Welcome to another Okie.

Michael

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Thank you! I guess I should have read the statutes a little closer. I appreciate the kind reply.

Glad to be here.

My instructor told us to make sure to yell "DROP THE WEAPON" loudly while backing up, because in my state if you're not in your home you have a duty to retreat if safe to do so.

Basically you want witnesses, because the DA will come after you even if you were justified in shooting the person.

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Originally Posted by CaveJohnson

My instructor told us to make sure to yell "DROP THE WEAPON" loudly while backing up, because in my state if you're not in your home you have a duty to retreat if safe to do so.

Basically you want witnesses, because the DA will come after you even if you were justified in shooting the person.

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Sadly this is true in MA. Preferably while you are dialed into 911 and the line is recorded so you stand a chance at your trial. :icon_neutral:

As an Instructor in MA I got so disgusted by all the mis-information being spewed by other instructors, LEOs and gun dealers that I created a 4+ hour seminar to set the record straight (not easy, MA gun law "tome" is a 450 page book! not kidding)!

Here are some gems from instructors:

- Illegal to carry in a bank, restaurant, anyplace that serves alcohol, etc. (NONE of this is true in MA))
- No FA-10 forms required for "transfers between close family relatives" (ALL transfers require this state form)

The following mis-information is "compliments" of three MA Hunter Safety Instructors and an Environmental Police Officer teaching Hunter Safety class that I took a few months ago:

- It's illegal to put more than one gun in a gun case. (Dumb question asked by another student and an even dumber answer given by EPO and agreed to by instructors)
- Transporting guns in a soft case requires a trigger lock. (Trigger locks do NOT comply with the MA transportation laws, and are only acceptable for "storage" of guns)