To quote Chris Rock: "Sure, it feels safe inside..."
This is a discussion on To quote Chris Rock: "Sure, it feels safe inside..." within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by LaraCroft10
The kicker is the poor judgment that comes with drinking -
There is a big lesson in what you wrote right ...
October 3rd, 2012 07:46 PM
There is a big lesson in what you wrote right there. Think about it.
Originally Posted by LaraCroft10
I agree, drinking while armed is not a good plan. But it's just the tip of the iceburg. Choosing to be unarmed so one is free to exercise bad judgement in a room full of people more likely to exercise bad judgement doesn't seem like a winning self defense strategy to me.
I like the idea of staying in control of myself unless I'm at home, and I don't drink at home either, but that's just me.
Try not drinking a couple of times. You might be surprised at your reaction to the whole bar scene. There are a lot of things to do that are more fun than getting drunk. Drunks are awful company, they just don't know it.
“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety), by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” by H. L. Mencken
October 3rd, 2012 08:04 PM
if you are going to go out, take just what cash you need, an i.d., some pepper spray, and go out in a group. if you get mugged just give up the cash. not worth a felony charge for carrying while drunk, and losing your right to carry for the rest of your life.
this is coming from a natural born wisconsinite. we like to drink.
October 3rd, 2012 08:31 PM
Better to have it and not need it, than to become just another statistic bleeding out in the gutter.
I found the same thing as you, when beginning my look into lawful carry, way back when. There were plenty of places disallowed and criminalized. Like you, I certainly asked "what's the point" more than a few times.
At minimum, it's one of those things that can help keep your butt out of a legal sling for innocent, minor missteps that are otherwise (at least, statutorily) deemed "crimes." Malarkey such as not storing the damned thing properly in a locked case in the trunk, but not the locked glove box, and not in a locked case inside the vehicle's cabin; or the screwy "peaceable journey" patchwork of statutes across the states. (Be prepared, right now, if you're not already, to be well and duly appalled at just how much infringement has gone on against the "shall not be infringed" Second Amendment.)
At minimum, going through the CHL process essentially means you've been branded an official card-carrying GG, so far as that goes. The mere fact you're on record as NOT intending to deliberately be criminal can say a lot, on its own, if ever you do commit some faux pas of stepping on one of the numerous landmines strewn about for us to step on.
If living in a state that doesn't have lawful Open Carry, going the CHL route is about the only way to ensure you're armed much (or most) of the time. Luckily, there are many states where basically one can carry lawfully everywhere except courtrooms and "secure/scanned" areas at airports. And as the past 20yrs has rolled on, nearly every state has passed basic CHL statutes.
As you find out more, no doubt you'll be inspired to communicate with some of your state's legislators on the outright insanity and/or stupidity in some of the statutes related to the carry of defensive weaponry and use-of-force against crime. In the long run, the only sure way we're going to get our liberties restored is to eviscerate the ugly elements from the statutes and to enshrine iron-clad verbiage in the state Constitutions to disallow future finagling with people's right to be armed. If nothing else, you'll have the opportunity to meet a great number of very interesting people along the way ... from law enforcement to public prosecutors, from public hirelings (officials, elected or otherwise) to "heavy bats" who can be enlisted to help change the rules of the game.
Anyway. Those are some of my thoughts, for what they're worth.
October 3rd, 2012 09:19 PM
There's countless people who think/thought the same way that are now felons and out $10+ grand. Even if you are under the legal limit, if you are involved in an incident, the lawyers will absolutely crucify you.
Originally Posted by LaraCroft10
October 3rd, 2012 11:07 PM
Here in Florida, its illegal to carry in bars (50% or more revenue from Liquor sales), Courthouses, Schools, Sporting events, etc, and......Disney (private property and they make it known that guns are not welcome and all they can do is ask you to leave if outed).
....you have to ask yourself if carrying a gun for protection is more important than going to some of the places you described in your post......if it is, then a life style change is in order. Obviously there are some places you must go such as work and courthouses when summoned for jury duty, and school, but are the others really that important? Over the years, I learned to avoid any place that prohibits firearms that I absolutely do not have to go. I have not been to Disney in ten years, and I avoid all the others the best I can. I quit drinking years ago, so alcohol and socializing at bars was an easy decision. I don't do it.
....while I was taking part time classes at a college a few years ago, I simply left my gun at home as I did not want to have my car broken into either. Other than colledge classes and two tours on jury duty, and a few Orlando Magic games, I have never been unarmed while I am awake in seven years. My work is less than a military installation, so I covertly carry there as well. Never had an issue.
Bottom line is carry where you can legally and learn to avoid those places that are prohibited under law. If it means a change in lifestyle, so be it. Part of being an adult.
.....and for every place else that is iffy.....learn to carry as deeply and covertly as possible where there is absolutely no chance of ever being outed. That may mean a change to carry weapon that is a perfectly fine self defense, but so small you will not enjoy practicing at the range.
Concealed carry is a lifestyle, and not just about applying for a permit and learning to punch paper at the indoor range. After carrying for seven years, I too had an opportunity to move back to Chicago to take a much better paying job. I turned it down. I never intend to set foot across the Illinois State Line again (my home state) until they pass a concealed carry law and recognize my Florida license. I have learned what it means to be able to protect my life carrying a firearm. I cherish that right to self defense much more than a higher paying job in Chicago where I would again be one of the defenseless sheep that I left there twelve years ago when I moved to Florida. No thanks.
Give to them according to their deeds and according to the wickedness of their endeavors; give to them according to the work of their hands; render to them their deserts. Psalm 28:4
October 4th, 2012 12:21 AM
Funny thing.... I really don't go anywhere that I cannot carry. But, I have to toss in that here ... there aren't the restrictions that a lot of other states have.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
October 4th, 2012 12:22 AM
You should seriously consider having Pepper Spray as well as a firearm. It can handle many situations where the threat level is not yet up to " lethal". Also, in most places you need no certification to carry it.
October 4th, 2012 11:07 AM
Originally Posted by zonker1986
When you make the decision to carry a weapon, you are also making a commitment...to yourself...that you will study, learn, train, and embrace the lifestyle...you will adjust and accept ALL the responsibilities that come with your choice.
You already know that there is evil in the world, now you have to make the commitment to yourself, that when you begin the journey, you will approach it daily, with the same intensity, and attention to detail, as you must have in your profession, in order to insure proper care of your patient...in this case you will be insuring that you will take proper care of yourself...
Your eyes are open...now begin your journey. JMO
btw, my daughter is a Cardiac Operating Room RN, and she too is beginning the journey (with some tutelage and assistance of good ole Dad!)...
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
October 4th, 2012 05:26 PM
I just read the MO statutes and it seems to me that there are lots of places to carry, and pretty much you can leave it in the car even at places where you can't. Airports are ok (unless you go through security), restaurants are okay, you shouldn't be drinking at a bar anyway with a gun, at work you can leave it in the car, and I don't think the public transportation issue was mentioned, so it probably is covered under the 'if you don't leave when discovered you will be cited for a misdemeanor' clause. All other private businesses are covered under that as well, and I'm sure that very few signs actually mean the statutes requirements anyway.
As far as IL goes, we're all hoping that one day they'll get CCW soon, so tell your boyfriend to get active and start writing congress critters. :)
October 4th, 2012 06:10 PM
Laws change. Michigan is considering eliminating gun free zones House Bill 5225 currently stalled in the Michigan Senate (SB 59 is really the one of interest).
So just because things ae not ideal today does not mean they will remain so forever.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788
October 4th, 2012 09:44 PM
Having moved from So. Cal. to Colorado over two years ago, I can say it was the best decision I've ever made. I'm a CA native, but I'll NEVER go back to the People's Republic of Kalifornia. In Colorado if you are caught carrying concealed where there are "no gun" signs (federal bldgs. and schools excluded) the business owner can ask you to leave...you leave, no problem. LEO's only come into play if you don't leave and it is basically a trespassing charge. As many people on this site have said, concealed means concealed...if you are carrying correctly there is no problem...
Originally Posted by LaraCroft10
October 4th, 2012 11:10 PM
Many of my customers would not appreciate knowing that I am armed. So, I make it my business that they do not know. That means carrying smaller guns - but I compensate for their shortcomings by always carrying two of them. Plus, it's kinda cool doing the whole "James Bond" thing.
You don't need to drink to have fun. Bad stuff happens when alcohol is added into the mix. If you are armed, you need to keep your wits about you. That means NO alcohol. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. If I go somewhere with others who want to drink, I volunteer to be the designated driver. Then I don't have to explain why else I don't want to drink.
Carry everywhere it is legal to do so. Keep it concealed and keep your mouth shut. If you save your life but lose your job - well, you can always get another job.
The number of people killed because they didn't have "enough gun" is dwarfed by those who had none at all. Get a gun you will always carry, and add more capability as you grow.
October 4th, 2012 11:41 PM
I'll tell you what a good friend of mine told me shortly after the Colorado Movie Theater Massacre. He's the chief of police for a fairly large, but rural city in Missouri, and was my instructor/trainer when I became a defensive tactics instructor. He was posting on his facebook page reminding all off duty LEO's to be sure and carry 24/7 even when off duty. I said to him that maybe if the movie theater wasn't posted as a "gun free" zone, maybe there would have been an armed ccw permit holder who could have made a difference. He said, "Bark'n, I don't let a stupid sign keep me from being able to defend myself or my family, And You Shouldn't Either."
Originally Posted by LaraCroft10
Okay, is that solid legal advice? No. Is it sound, practical advice? Yes.
It's not a crime to violate posted places in Missouri (except where it violates federal gun laws and on buses). If confronted and asked to leave, you should leave. Now I ask you... If someone makes a stink about it, and asks you to disarm or leave... Who in their right mind wouldn't leave when asked?
Missouri legislators knew exactly what they were doing when they worded the ccw legislation the way they did. Missouri was one of the last states to get ccw and they carefully reviewed the ccw laws of all the other states in order to construct a very good ccw law for our state. Yes, they understand the rights of property owners to not have guns on their premises if they don't want them. But they also, understand peoples constitutional right to use lethal force to defend their self against a lethal threat. And you can't effectively do that if you don't have your gun with you. That's why the law was carefully crafted to say it is not a criminal act to violate a posted place. It's why they said, employers or anyone else can't forbid you from keeping your gun locked in your vehicle in the parking lot. Again, unless it's a violation of federal gun laws.
For some strange reason however, carrying a gun on a bus (public or private) in Missouri is a felony (unless there is expressed permission from the bus owner or it's agent). That law was on the books way before ccw was passed and for some reason was not addressed in the ccw statute. So, don't carry on the Metro in St. Louis.
I'm from Kansas City. I live about 100 miles from there now and I frequently visit St. Louis. The real question to you is... Living in St. Louis, how much is your life worth to you? Or is it more important to abide by a sign which does not carry the weight of law?
I can not condone breaking any State or Federal law. But violating a posted place or business in Missouri is not breaking the law.
Granted, in many states it is. In many states, it's a misdemeanor crime of criminal trespass to violate a posted place. Not so in Missouri.
Missouri Revised Statutes-Chapter 571 Weapons Offenses-Section 571.107
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
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