How would you argue this? - Page 3

How would you argue this?

This is a discussion on How would you argue this? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by limatunes Tell him that if he were to take a basic pistol class they would teach him that, "All guns are loaded ...

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  1. #31
    Member Array MrsHB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Tell him that if he were to take a basic pistol class they would teach him that, "All guns are loaded all the time."

    It shouldn't matter if it's "loaded" or "not loaded." It's a gun and it should be treated the same no matter what. And if you treat it with that kind of respect 100% of the time then there will be no need to worry about it.
    THIS!

    But I think you're dealing with "powdered butt" syndrome.

    Meaning, no one will be corrected by someone whose butt they powdered as an infant.

    Good luck anyway.
    Phillep Harding likes this.
    "...people who carry a gun understand that they are arming themselves against a very unlikely event... People who arm themselves are not confused about the odds. They are concerned about the stakes. -Kathy Jackson
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  2. #32
    Member Array Glhadiator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneshot View Post
    Anyone who doesn't carry with one round in the chamber and a mag inside the pistol(unless utilizing the mag disconnect while at home for safety around children) is afraid of firearms, thinks they "just happen to go off all by themselves", and shouldn't carry until they lose their apprehension.
    Years ago I carried a gun without a round chambered. A professional shooter and friend of mine asked me why I carried a gun if I wasn't wasn't skilled enough in safe gun handling skills. He explained that my fear came from a lack of training and practice. Just as Oneshot said, "...shouldn't carry until they lose their apprehension." I vanquished my fear with constant training and practice.

    Quote Originally Posted by limatunes View Post
    Tell him that if he were to take a basic pistol class they would teach him that, "All guns are loaded all the time."

    It shouldn't matter if it's "loaded" or "not loaded." It's a gun and it should be treated the same no matter what. And if you treat it with that kind of respect 100% of the time then there will be no need to worry about it.
    And this^^^^^^^^^^^^was the crux of the safe handling skills I learned and practice today.

    Serve my country, swear an oath to protect it, pay my taxes, fly old glory in the front yard, love and protect my family, honor the vets before me and help fellow americans in need.
    By definition my country now calls me a radical

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Knight View Post
    If you can afford it buy a side of beef or a pig. Why? Simple, hang it up then give your dad a knife that would be somewhat common in an attack. Now give him 3 seconds to as much damage as possible. After he sees for himself how much damage can be done in 3 seconds he may change his mind. After the day is done you can have a BBQ with whats left. Also he needs better instructors. Every instructor I have had said exactly the opposite of his.
    ^^^
    This. Combine with the Tueller drill. Might get your point across.
    My father has made leaps and bounds learning about firearms and the reasons for carrying them with one in the pipe.
    He used to be against it and now he understands the concept.

    Next time you're in a situation where you can (safely) handle your firearm... place your loaded cocked pull-the-trigger-and-it-goes-bang pistol on the table (obviously pointed in a safe direction) and ask him if its going to go bang without being touched. (He should say something along the lines of "no") then place it in a proper holster that completely covers the trigger and ask him the same question again. (Once again he should say "no") and then dont say another word about it and go back to doing what you were. Let his mind do the work.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk, please excuse typos.

  4. #34
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    Other than having him go through the act of drawing, loading, racking the slide and firing (using snap caps) while timed, there is nothing you can do.

    I can understand not carrying chambered, but never completely unloaded.
    Really? Are you willing to bet you life that you can draw, rack the slide, aim and fire at someone running at you with a knife, before they reach you and plunge it into your chest? That isn't a bet I'm willing to take.
    Freedom doesn't come free. It is bought and paid for by the lives and blood of our men and women in uniform.

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  5. #35
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    Whatever it is that you train to deal with quickly and competently, that method can be a reasonable one. If you're effective at being able to bring an unchambered gun into battery, then you might well not experience much of the downside of the gun being incapable of initially firing. If on the other hand you believe you're capable of avoiding or withstanding a disarm or misfire, then you might well be better off having a chambered gun. YMMV. Whatever works best for you, via training to be competent with the gun in that condition. Pros/cons either way, depending on your point of view.

    Myself, I prefer chambered, and I accept the risks attached to that.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  6. #36
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    I carry "unloaded" all the time...
    The gun is loaded, I'm not...

    However, I have found that an unloaded firearm would make a unique "bud vase" for any vehicle... Just hot glue it to the dash... voila! a useful bud vase... a useless gun!

    And tell pops that it would be even safer to carry if he removed the firing pin,
    or, If carrying a pistol, he could remove the slide and carry that weak side as well...

    Wait... some jurisdictions consider a loaded magazine a firearm... he better unload the mag as well...

    In California, when they used to be able to carry, unloaded... they called it the 2 second carry...

    In Illinois where it has to be unloaded, and mag separate, they call it 6 second carry.

    The Israelis carry unchambered... But they drill for it.. a lot...

    I think your dad is misinterpreting what the instructor said... or taking too literally something he said...

    Give up with the argument... you're free and +21... let dad carry his way... you can carry the right way.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  7. #37
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    Carry your weapon around field-stripped. No sense in scaring anyone with a fully-assembled firearm that isn't ready to be fired, anyway. Plus, if you practice, you can put the slide on the gun in just a couple of seconds. Obviously seconds don't matter, so why not?
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9

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  8. #38
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    I carry in my purse most of the time. Does he really think I have the seconds to pull my gun and take the safety off AND load the darn thing.
    Our House Is Protected By The Good Lord And A gun. You Might Meet Both Of Them If You Show Up Inside My House Uninvited.

  9. #39
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    You don't argue it, you carry your way let him carry his.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Other than having him go through the act of drawing, loading, racking the slide and firing (using snap caps) while timed, there is nothing you can do.



    Really? Are you willing to bet you life that you can draw, rack the slide, aim and fire at someone running at you with a knife, before they reach you and plunge it into your chest? That isn't a bet I'm willing to take.
    I didn't say I carry unchambered, I just said I can understand why someone would.

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    i wouldn't argue it, he seems set in his belief that.its unsafe to carry chambered. i would just hope he never needs to use his ccw.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  12. #42
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyDTrigger View Post
    He is making that up... no way an instructor would say that.
    this.

    if you decide to continue to argue it, ask for his instructors contact info
    and what courses he took that are suggesting that. sure there are probably a few out there but none that I've been to and no instructors I know are teaching that.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM View Post
    Actually, quite often.

    And in war zones, no less...
    Not sure what part of the military you've seen, but it wasn't mine. Unloaded in a war zone? Not happening.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
    -General James Mattis, USMC

  15. #45
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    WOW.....I sure hope you Dad does not fuel up the car before a drive.....That COULD be dangerous.....Hell, the car could start itself with fuel in the tank.....unloaded......WOW

    neverenough
    Last edited by neverenough; October 16th, 2012 at 02:08 PM. Reason: needed another WOW....

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