How would you argue this? - Page 6

How would you argue this?

This is a discussion on How would you argue this? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SIGguy229 I'm sorry....I'm not buying the "no loaded weapons in Iraq in 2003" story....I was in Iraq in 2003...March until June....and then ...

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  1. #76
    Ex Member Array lizjimbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIGguy229 View Post
    I'm sorry....I'm not buying the "no loaded weapons in Iraq in 2003" story....I was in Iraq in 2003...March until June....and then 2004, March until September. We were locked and loaded the entire time.

    Secondly, how high is that horse you are on? Your post is inflammatory. You have your reasons for carrying the way you do...IMO, you are an amateur and untrained and unsure of your firearm and gun handling skills--that can be fixed. Living in ignorance...well, that's up to you to address.

    Third, see the article in his thread: appears cooperating doesn't work either... Then do a search on carrying loaded vs unloaded. You'll find that good training from a reputable trainer can ally your fears of properly carrying a defensive firearm. A quality holster/belt combination and self-discipline keeping your finger off the trigger will prevent NDs.
    Did not ask you to buy it or believe it. That is what happens when you got politicians wanting to make nice with islamist extremists. That was Bush...now we got obama that refuses to let Marine security at our embassies keep a loaded magazine in their weapons. That is life.

    Simply all I want out of this forum is a bit of respect on how i choose to handle a firearm that is in my control. If that is far too much to ask then I am truly in the middle of a RAMBO 5 movie set coming on here. I suggest you go back and read my posts first and then see my responses to the replies...then and only then can you have a clue as to how high my horse is...get it? Either that or continue to jump to conclusions. It is now your time to pick one! What will it be...humility or arrogance?


  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizjimbo View Post
    Did not ask you to buy it or believe it. That is what happens when you got politicians wanting to make nice with islamist extremists. That was Bush...now we got obama that refuses to let Marine security at our embassies keep a loaded magazine in their weapons. That is life.

    Simply all I want out of this forum is a bit of respect on how i choose to handle a firearm that is in my control. If that is far too much to ask then I am truly in the middle of a RAMBO 5 movie set coming on here. I suggest you go back and read my posts first and then see my responses to the replies...then and only then can you have a clue as to how high my horse is...get it? Either that or continue to jump to conclusions. It is now your time to pick one! What will it be...humility or arrogance?
    What do you believe we should be humble about?
    "If I had my choice I would kill every reporter in the world, but I am sure we would be getting reports from Hell before breakfast."
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  3. #78
    eb
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    I am of the opinion that anyone who is not comfortable carrying a weapon that is ready for instant defense, shouldn't be carrying at all. This demonstrates a level of insecurity about ones own protocols for safety, and a lack of understanding of the function of a firearm. As such, this makes that person a dangerous candidate to be in the possession of said firearm.

    For the record, the CCW class I took insisted that an unloaded or unchambered gun is nothing but a blunt object, so you might be better off open carrying a hammer on a tool belt in terms of being able to respond quickly. It can be argued that if you have 3 seconds to prepare your gun for combat, that in a civilian self-defense scenario, that you are more than likely about to commit a murder rather than defend your own life. Yes there are scenarios where perhaps this isn't true, like a shooter in a mall, etc, but look at the vast majority of scenarios that happen fast and violently...

    Just my personal opinions folks, YMMV...
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  4. #79
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    lizjimbo - I hope all works out well for you in your decision. I really do. But as for me, I am going to follow my path and that path is to be ready to draw, and while drawing flick off my safety (which I really didn't want but was on the gun that was available for trade that I wanted more than the gun I traded for) and being able to double-tap immediately into the threat. I do believe that not carrying loaded and one in the chamber is a higher risk than I am willing to take and has a higher risk than an ND or AD. That is my belief.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb View Post
    For the record, the CCW class I took insisted that an unloaded or unchambered gun is nothing but a blunt object, so you might be better off open carrying a hammer on a tool belt in terms of being able to respond quickly. It can be argued that if you have 3 seconds to prepare your gun for combat, that in a civilian self-defense scenario, that you are more than likely about to commit a murder rather than defend your own life. Yes there are scenarios where perhaps this isn't true, like a shooter in a mall, etc, but look at the vast majority of scenarios that happen fast and violently...

    Just my personal opinions folks, YMMV...
    True, if you have that much time you have time to evacuate the area of threat. I know that with "Stand Your Ground" laws in some areas you are not required to retreat; but even WITH those laws in place, you can bet either a Anti-stanced DA will state that you had time to leave the area if you had time to load and fire; at the least it would be brought up in a Civil wrongful death suit that you did not HAVE to kill the "Poor Soul" BG, you could have run away. KInda the "and the vicious gun weilder had time to not only LOAD his evil gun but fire at the victim" sort of thing, like how many times a person reloaded and fired.

  6. #81
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    Yes, I am more likely to be involved in a "in your face" confrontation, than one in a mall or some such. Muggings and the like happen more frequently than mass shootings such as occured in Colorado. A mugging, or the like, is also the type of threat that would require the fastest response, and is less likely to alow one the time and/or ability (one hand) to chamber a round, much less load and chamber a round.

  7. #82
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    Agreed, if you have 3 seconds, chances are you could have gotten the heck outta dodge. Even with a stand your ground law in place, it is a better day when you can return home having hopefully learned something, and not having to deal with the weight of possibly killing someone or the legal ramifications that could ensue after.

    In my opinion, you are far more likely to jam the gun when trying to rack a round under duress as well (assuming you even have both hands free). People that carry an unready gun seem to assume that they will perform flawlessly under stress, which I do not understand. Do this in front of a BG, and you're toast. He isn't going to wait for you. Would you if the situation was reversed? If I saw someone pull a gun on me, then fumble with it, I'm all over them within a fraction of a second, or, if equipped, I'm sending a shot of my own.

  8. #83
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    Two words... Teuller Drill.

    Don't just tell him about it. Set it up and do it with him. It's one of the simplest drills to set up and perform... and one of the biggest eye openers.
    -Bark'n
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizjimbo View Post
    The message is that the guy bled to death in front of his children This accident was completely and 100% avoidable, but I am sure Dad just got his CCW in Virginia and needed to scratch the itch. What difference does it make on how the guy was carrying his weapon. The guy is no less dead. A mess of people are dead because of clumsily handling firearms they think are safe to handle the way they want to handle them.



    ^^^^^^^^^^^Rational thought^^^^^^^^^^^^^


    Escapes some.

    He died because he was careless, carried a firearm W/O using a holster, and then somehow put his booger hook on the bang switch.
    Sad that he is a poster child for a holster, but nevertheless that is what he is

    lizjimbo,
    You can carry however you wish, just don't think that those of us who carry with a round chambered are wrong for not understanding your beliefs.
    People here are not condemning you for your position, they are,for the most part trying to get you to gain additional training and knowledge.
    If you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.

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  10. #85
    Member Array Ogre's Avatar
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    IMHO it plays into the fallacy of "just because I have a gun I'm safe" thinking. If the BG has the "drop" on you do you honestly think that you can draw & fire faster than he can pull the trigger? Let alone draw, chamber THEN fire. Heaven forbid I have to draw, load, chamber & fire!

    That is a lot to do in a situation that is more likely to happen-attempted mugging, assault, or being involved in a local armed robbery attempt, or even a night time home invasion type scenario (half asleep trying to load and QUIETLY chamber a round. Don't let TV fool ya, the sound of a gun being cheered will not drive off a burglar, especially an armed one it'll just make them start shooting)

  11. #86
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizjimbo View Post
    Did not ask you to buy it or believe it. That is what happens when you got politicians wanting to make nice with islamist extremists. That was Bush...now we got obama that refuses to let Marine security at our embassies keep a loaded magazine in their weapons. That is life.

    Simply all I want out of this forum is a bit of respect on how i choose to handle a firearm that is in my control. If that is far too much to ask then I am truly in the middle of a RAMBO 5 movie set coming on here. I suggest you go back and read my posts first and then see my responses to the replies...then and only then can you have a clue as to how high my horse is...get it? Either that or continue to jump to conclusions. It is now your time to pick one! What will it be...humility or arrogance?
    I didn't see anyone without respect for how you carry, saw people trying to make you see that carrying unchambered might put you behind the 8-ball in a sd situation. I did see you disrespect those of us who do carry chambered, saying we should be shut-ins, give our firearms away and are deeply paranoid for carrying a condition 1 weapon, that we believe we are extras in Rambo 5?
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Two words... Teuller Drill.

    Don't just tell him about it. Set it up and do it with him. It's one of the simplest drills to set up and perform... and one of the biggest eye openers.
    Also, have him try this one handed (training should involve all scenarios, not just the optimal one for "the good guy"). Some people have practiced and trained and gotten very good at one handed chambering in the event of a failure to fire... but I've yet to see someone train one handed insertion of a magazine for the first defensive shot.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by lizjimbo View Post
    Did not ask you to buy it or believe it. That is what happens when you got politicians wanting to make nice with islamist extremists. That was Bush...now we got obama that refuses to let Marine security at our embassies keep a loaded magazine in their weapons. That is life.

    Simply all I want out of this forum is a bit of respect on how i choose to handle a firearm that is in my control. If that is far too much to ask then I am truly in the middle of a RAMBO 5 movie set coming on here. I suggest you go back and read my posts first and then see my responses to the replies...then and only then can you have a clue as to how high my horse is...get it? Either that or continue to jump to conclusions. It is now your time to pick one! What will it be...humility or arrogance?
    Well, when you ended your previous post with:
    Quote Originally Posted by lizjimbo
    Frankly if you think you have to keep a round in the chamber, it will be much safer for everybody, including yourself and your family, for you to get rid of all of your firearms.
    ...leads one to believe you really don't know how to carry a defensive firearm--and that in your "experience", keeping a round in the chamber leads you to believe one is paranoid:
    Quote Originally Posted by lizjimbo
    If you think that you need to have a round chambered every time you walk out your door perhaps you should never leave home or possibly an evaluation to check on some deep seated paranoia
    Not paranoid--prepared. Some food for thought:
    Articles: The Knockout Game: Racial Violence and the Conspicuous Silence of the Media
    'Knockout game' case shocked St. Louis, then fell apart : Stltoday
    Chicago Thugs Kill Disabled Father in ‘Knock-Out Game’ – Post Video on Facebook | The Gateway Pundit

    While situational awareness can probably stop something before it starts, sometimes you don't get a vote...the bad guy ALWAYS gets a vote.

    I highly recommend you seek training and not fear an inanimate object.

    So what's it going to be? Ignorance and fear? or Training and confidence?
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  14. #89
    Senior Member Array CanuckQue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveb413 View Post
    Also, have him try this one handed (training should involve all scenarios, not just the optimal one for "the good guy"). Some people have practiced and trained and gotten very good at one handed chambering in the event of a failure to fire... but I've yet to see someone train one handed insertion of a magazine for the first defensive shot.
    Have you seen the hallway scene in Kick Ass? One-handed reloads? No problem!
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    As well, there are millions in potential patents possible for those with a tool shed, ideas, or creative loved ones to tell.. (and gumption) It's an untapped technology.


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