Fantastic! too young to have a gun of her own... - Page 3

Fantastic! too young to have a gun of her own...

This is a discussion on Fantastic! too young to have a gun of her own... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; So, kid survives home invasion. Manages to defend herself. We have zero idea, or information on what the child knew about guns except that she ...

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 61
Like Tree61Likes

Thread: Fantastic! too young to have a gun of her own...

  1. #31
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Hickory, NC
    Posts
    2,810
    So, kid survives home invasion. Manages to defend herself. We have zero idea, or information on what the child knew about guns except that she has not shot one. We have no idea if the child is responsible in general. And we don't know where the gun was actually located. All we know is that the mother told the child to get the family gun. It could just as easily been locked up as laying on the coffe table. But we are willing to second guess the mother. How did we ever survive without gun safes?
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"


  2. #32
    Member Array LaraCroft10's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
    Posts
    145
    My question is why this scumbag who has previous kidnapping charges is walking free?!

    She did so well. That guy was not there to burglarize the place...he was coming for her. Maybe she's a little traumatized now, but when she's older, she will understand if it wasn't for that gun, she would most certainly be dead, and who knows what he'd have done to her first.

    We don't have any right to question the parenting because we don't know enough, and obviously it worked out for the best.
    Proud owner of a Sig Sauer P238 SAS Explosive Space Modulator.

    "I played the powerless in too many dark scenes. And I was blessed with a birth and a death, and I guess I just want some say in between." - Ani DiFranco, "Talk to me Now."

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kodak TN
    Posts
    1,161
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Nope, because an unsupervised kid with no gun education could just as easily hurt themselves or others with the gun or succumb to peer pressure and allow other kids with no business around a gun to handle it. No one said anything about "only highly trained individuals are allowed to defend themselves". The only thing that was said was that a parent who leaves a firearm accessible to a kid who doesn't understand how to use it has been irresponsible wrt guns. Nice strawman though.
    We have no idea of her level of training. We do know that she had access to the gun and the will to use it to defend herself against an intruder who had no business in her home.

    I do agree that it would have been nice if the young lady had been to the range on a regular basis with extensive training in the law and self defense BUT given the circumstances presented, would you prefer that the young lady not have access to the gun? Whether or not she had previous training?

  4. #34
    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Osceola County, FL
    Posts
    264
    I'm not saying it's a bad thing that she was able to defend herself, in fact, given these circumstances, this was about the best possible outcome.

    I'm glad she didn't kill him, a sixth-grade girl doesn't need to carry around that baggage, and I've seen what happens to child molesters, rapists, etc in prison, and I wish him every bit of that.

    As far as training goes, I want to know who has ever shown themselves proficient with a firearm without firing it. How many people have told their significant other everything there is to know about a firearm, then when it comes time to shoot, they get hit in the head with it, or something else happens (I knew a girl who put her left index finger behind the trigger when she first picked it up)?
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

  5. #35
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    3,757
    Jeeze, guess I'll spell it out with all these ____ questions.

    If there's a gun in the house, if everyone isn't properly trained in safe usage, lock it up or keep it on you. Note: I did not say "highly trained", don't have to be running IDPA matches with it. Properly trained includes safe handling and safe shooting. I'm glad she had the will to pull the trigger and glad she hit the guy and glad she didn't have to see the guy as she shot him. As good as this turned out, no one can get around mom set her up for failure.
    We do know at least some extent of any training - she had never pulled the trigger; that's a very big indicator of her level of training.
    Mom left a gun out with an uneducated, as to guns, little kid alone in the house - recipe for disaster.
    Every day this occurred was a recipe for disaster.
    She introduced a gun into a situation where she was betting her daugherter's life/wellbeing on a scared, unknowledgeable kid to actually pull the trigger and hit her target when trained adult men have been known to freeze - recipe for disaster.
    Just because for all of probably 10 minutes out of all the days where it wasn't a good idea, things work out, does not make mom's decision making process a bright one.

    She spent the money on the gun but failed to follow through in the prep work of her daughter and lucked out.

    As good as this turned out, the more likely result would have been man winds up with kid and gun and whatever happens after that. There were so many other outcomes, all bad. It's like taking your house payment (with no other money in the bank), betting on 19 at the roulette table, winning, and then claiming you made the right decision. If you think that does qualify as the right decision you should call 1 800 BETS OFF.


    ... or maybe I can put it another way that more people will understand: So, you think that's it's appropriate for parents to leave 12 yr olds who are not properly trained with guns, alone, with unsecured guns in the home?

    Also, there are some states where you will go to jail for child endangerment for this.
    Last edited by nedrgr21; October 22nd, 2012 at 12:26 AM.

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array chiefjason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Hickory, NC
    Posts
    2,810
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    ... or maybe I can put it another way that more people will understand: So, you think that's it's appropriate for parents to leave 12 yr olds who are not properly trained with guns, alone, with unsecured guns in the home?

    Also, there are some states where you will go to jail for child endangerment for this.
    Somehow myself, and a lot of others on this board managed to survive to adulthood without gun safes. In my house guns were either hung on a rack, leaning in the corner, on top of the armoire, or maybe (though unlikely) in a gun case under the bed. Same with all my neighbors, friends parents, and uncles. Some of us knew how to shoot and what a gun can do. Others just knew that they were something we were not supposed to play with.

    It's also legal in most states for this young lady to do exactly what she did. The funny thing about the laws that revolve around locking up guns is that the most important issue in charging someone is the way the gun was used. In reality it's not about locking the gun up, it's about holding the parent accountable for the crime of the child. Because they have exceptions for self defense. OK, how do you go about locking up a gun except for use in self defense?

    I would rather my child take the chance of defending herself than put her life and well being in the hands of a criminal. Both my girls have shot .22's and BB guns. So they are ahead of this young lady. But they have also been taught that they are not to touch mommy and daddy's guns without us there. Occasionally they ask to see them and we let them. Other than that, they show absolutely no interest in them. Some kids can be taught and will actually listen. I know that an oddity for some people. Some kids, I would not trust home along with a stick. I have no idea which category this girl falls into, though I have my suspicions.
    ep1953 likes this.
    I prefer to live dangerously free than safely caged!

    "Our houses are protected by the good Lord and a gun. And you might meet 'em both if you show up here not welcome son." Josh Thompson "Way Out Here"

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kodak TN
    Posts
    1,161
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Jeeze, guess I'll spell it out with all these ____ questions.

    If there's a gun in the house, if everyone isn't properly trained in safe usage, lock it up or keep it on you. Note: I did not say "highly trained", don't have to be running IDPA matches with it. Properly trained includes safe handling and safe shooting. I'm glad she had the will to pull the trigger and glad she hit the guy and glad she didn't have to see the guy as she shot him. As good as this turned out, no one can get around mom set her up for failure.
    You seem to contradicting yourself. Had mom followed your rule of keeping the gun locked up, the young lady would not have been able to defend herself. And yet you're glad she had the will to pull the trigger and glad she hit the scum that had invaded her home. So which way do you want it? The gun locked up and the young lady raped and murdered or the gun available to the young lady so she could defend herself? Also, we still don't know if she was taught about gun safety even though she had not actually fired a gun up till that point. I started teaching my son about gun safety when he was two years old, long before I let him shoot.


    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    Somehow myself, and a lot of others on this board managed to survive to adulthood without gun safes. In my house guns were either hung on a rack, leaning in the corner, on top of the armoire, or maybe (though unlikely) in a gun case under the bed. Same with all my neighbors, friends parents, and uncles. Some of us knew how to shoot and what a gun can do. Others just knew that they were something we were not supposed to play with.
    Same here chiefjason, there were guns all over the house when I was growing up. Same with my house when my son was growning up. Same at his house were my grandchildren are growing up. I taught my son gun safety. He has taught his son who is six and already owns a .22 rifle (My granddaughter is six months so its a little early to get her started). I have a gun safe and I use it when I leave the house so they don't get stolen if there is a breakin while I am gone. Same with my son at his house. But while we are home the guns are out so they are available to deal with any scumbag that decides he or she wants to breakin.
    lyz_grace likes this.

  8. #38
    Member Array kante's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Formerly OKC, OK; Currently Karlsruhe, Germany
    Posts
    78
    And already, here in Germany, public discussion starts about those "stupid americans and their stupid gun laws".

    She did the right thing, defended herself and did not get killed or raped, but to the local public here, it's still wrong. Because: "Now, only because of americas stupid gun laws, the poor child had to shood the intruder and will be scarred and traumatized for the rest of her life - if she would not have been able to access a gun and to just call 911 and hide instead, she would have been spared from all that... "

    I don't want to live on this planet anymore...
    Regards, Mike

    The german american, now living in Germany, but surely missing home!

  9. #39
    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Osceola County, FL
    Posts
    264
    MAYBE it was kept locked from her, but my spidey senses say no on that one. Guns were never kept in a safe at my home growing up, and there were many of them, but they were all secured from me being able to function them until I was old and mature enough to handle them properly (regardless of the fact that I could have disassembled and reassembled every firearm in the house, and knew every fact and function of each of them by the time I was this girl's age).

    And guess what else? I was never made to wear a bike helmet growing up, as were none of my friends. Everyone was fine, until one day I wrecked and cracked the top/side of my head open. I nearly died, and I'll have a bald spot on my head for the rest of my life to remind me that a helmet might have helped. My children will wear a helmet until they're old enough to make their own decisions.

    Just as a bike helmet or seat belts are now considered the norm to ensure our children's safety (for any reasonable, responsible guardian), because of the stupid things that might happen (yes, I said MIGHT, but are you really willing to live with the alternative?), securing your firearms from your youngsters is just a smart move. You can tell me your 13 year old is as mature as you want to, but the allure of showing his buddy dad's gun is pretty strong, and comes with some possible consequences, some of which I'm just not willing to live with.

    Now, I think it's wonderful this girl was able to defend herself. But luck had a whole lot more to do with this than solid parenting.
    If when she called Mom, she gave the girl the code to the safe and then she retrieved the gun, OK (still should have trained her how to use it, she was certainly old enough).
    BUT, maybe some other steps could have been taken, such as the girl not being alone at 12, more secure doors, or any number of things, none of which require your little girl to take a man's life.

    Say what you want, the whole situation BEFORE the BG showed up (being completely Mom's responsibility) should have never been.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

  10. #40
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    3,757
    Boy, some people are thick. You should invest in a dictionary; there's no contradiction in being happy everything turned out well and realizing that the day to day situation was dangerous for the child. If you find out a friend/family member arrived home safe after driving while drunk off their butt, is it a contradiction to be glad they're safe, but angry they endangered themselves and everyone else on the road? If that's the case, parenting is a constant "contradiction".

    It doesn't matter how responsible the kid seems to be, what about when she has friends over, or when mom has friends with kids over. There's plenty of people whose kids have friends over when parents aren't home - that's part of being a kid. How many parents say "s/he's usually so responsible" after a kid does something stupid? People keep bringing up "when I was a kid" - it's irrelevant. Child deaths are down b/c seat belts are required b/c parents weren't responsible enough to protect kids who didn't have the skills to recognize the dangers involved in traveling at 60 mph, child deaths are down despite increased gun ownership b/c there's more education about gun safety. Both of those facts demonstrate there was something wrong with how things were being done in the past - it's called learning folks. Statements about " I survived" are fine, but what about the kids that aren't around to say "I didn't survive" b/c ignorance (on my part or others).

  11. #41
    Member Array TailRunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    90
    Quote Originally Posted by kante View Post
    And already, here in Germany, public discussion starts about those "stupid americans and their stupid gun laws".

    She did the right thing, defended herself and did not get killed or raped, but to the local public here, it's still wrong. Because: "Now, only because of americas stupid gun laws, the poor child had to shood the intruder and will be scarred and traumatized for the rest of her life - if she would not have been able to access a gun and to just call 911 and hide instead, she would have been spared from all that... "
    So I'm guessing their thought process is that it is more tramatic to a 12 yo to shoot an intruder than it would be to hide in a closet waiting for the bg to find her and molest, rape, or whatever else has has in store for the girl? They have some interesting logic.
    In watching the local news reports, the girl is a hero, unfazed so far from the trama and attention she has received. Local authorities have quickly cleared her of any wrong doing, she did exactly what she had to do to eliminate the threat. Kids at school won't mess with her! I would also bet she will now get proper gun training.
    1MoreGoodGuy and kante like this.
    "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
    Thomas Jefferson

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    887
    Quote Originally Posted by FLArmadillo View Post
    MAYBE it was kept locked from her, but my spidey senses say no on that one. Guns were never kept in a safe at my home growing up, and there were many of them, but they were all secured from me being able to function them until I was old and mature enough to handle them properly (regardless of the fact that I could have disassembled and reassembled every firearm in the house, and knew every fact and function of each of them by the time I was this girl's age).

    And guess what else? I was never made to wear a bike helmet growing up, as were none of my friends. Everyone was fine, until one day I wrecked and cracked the top/side of my head open. I nearly died, and I'll have a bald spot on my head for the rest of my life to remind me that a helmet might have helped. My children will wear a helmet until they're old enough to make their own decisions.

    Just as a bike helmet or seat belts are now considered the norm to ensure our children's safety (for any reasonable, responsible guardian), because of the stupid things that might happen (yes, I said MIGHT, but are you really willing to live with the alternative?), securing your firearms from your youngsters is just a smart move. You can tell me your 13 year old is as mature as you want to, but the allure of showing his buddy dad's gun is pretty strong, and comes with some possible consequences, some of which I'm just not willing to live with.

    Now, I think it's wonderful this girl was able to defend herself. But luck had a whole lot more to do with this than solid parenting.
    If when she called Mom, she gave the girl the code to the safe and then she retrieved the gun, OK (still should have trained her how to use it, she was certainly old enough).
    BUT, maybe some other steps could have been taken, such as the girl not being alone at 12, more secure doors, or any number of things, none of which require your little girl to take a man's life.

    Say what you want, the whole situation BEFORE the BG showed up (being completely Mom's responsibility) should have never been.
    Well, my spidey sense says you're wrong. I'm betting the kid has had at least one lesson on the safe handling of the gun. You don't have to shoot it to understand what it is and how to safely handle it.

    You can say whatever you want, but what you call bad parenting saved that young girl's life. There's no denying that.
    lyz_grace likes this.

  13. #43
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    396
    The articles don't even say if the gun was locked up or not, just that she had never fired one before... People need to relax a bit on here :)

  14. #44
    Distinguished Member
    Array accessbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    1,407
    My kids know where the 12 gauge is and how to use it. We just practiced loading and firing this past weekend. And we'll do it more. But I do know that mine do know a lot about guns, have no interest in firing anything larger than a .22 (except my daughter who loves my brother-in-law's Golani Galil and my AK., but know how to shoot when they need to. My middle one's 14th birthday present is a Remington 597 .22 with a scope. It is nice. But that one as well as the AK and other guns are in the gun safe. The shotgun is where they can get to it if necessary.
    EDC - M&P Shield .40 OR Ruger SR1911 CMD AND
    Ruger LCP in Desantis Pocket Holster (backup)
    Member - SAF, OFF,
    NRA Life Member

  15. #45
    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Osceola County, FL
    Posts
    264
    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    You can say whatever you want, but what you call bad parenting saved that young girl's life. There's no denying that.
    I don't think any bad parenting saved that young girl's life, and I'd like to think that you don't either.

    This girl was lucky the BG wasn't armed or more determined than he was. If he was (this is the same guy that took a point blank .40 hit), she would be dead. Girl was lucky that many other things didn't happen. A grown man can take multiple .40 shots to the chest region (excluding heart/lungs), then proceed to murder a trained shooter, and then drive himself home. If you don't believe that, take a visit over to liveleak and check out some dash cam shootings.

    Armed or not, this girl should have never been allowed into this position, and THAT is the bad parenting part.
    Not one single person in this entire thread has said that the girl's actions did not save her life, because, obviously, they did, and that was not at all the point of my post.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

powered by article dashboard family safety
,

powered by article dashboard gun show

,
powered by article dashboard lowes regional office
,
powered by article dashboard off topic forum
,
powered by article dashboard offtopic co
,
powered by article dashboard offtopic forums
,
powered by article dashboard offtopic op
,

powered by article dashboard regional office of education 02

,
powered by article dashboard regional office of education 2
,
powered by article dashboard st. clair regional office of education
,
powered by article dashboard too young to be legal
,
powered by article dashboard will county regional office of education
Click on a term to search for related topics.