Fantastic! too young to have a gun of her own...

This is a discussion on Fantastic! too young to have a gun of her own... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Something to think about : Steel door from Lowe's $123, deadbolt $30, Katy bar $200 = install on closet for instant safe room for less ...

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 61
Like Tree61Likes

Thread: Fantastic! too young to have a gun of her own...

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    KCMO
    Posts
    3,108
    Something to think about: Steel door from Lowe's $123, deadbolt $30, Katy bar $200 = install on closet for instant safe room for less than cost of most quality handguns.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #47
    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Osceola County, FL
    Posts
    264
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Something to think about: Steel door from Lowe's $123, deadbolt $30, Katy bar $200 = install on closet for instant safe room for less than cost of most quality handguns.
    Exactly.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

  4. #48
    Member Array 02R1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    wi
    Posts
    226
    too bad the gun she used wasn't at least a 20g shotgun....

  5. #49
    Member Array CAS_Shooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    195
    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    Something to think about: Steel door from Lowe's $123, deadbolt $30, Katy bar $200 = install on closet for instant safe room for less than cost of most quality handguns.
    This is a great suggestion for everyone. Of course, if she had not shot him, he would likely still be free and biding time until he found another victim who may not have either a safe room or a gun. In some scenarios a safe room could turn out a far better option than a gun. In other scenarios a saferoom could be serving yourself up on a platter. A shotgun equipped saferoom seems the best combination. Or, in a pinch, a 40 cal glock in a closet.

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array Spidey2011's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    887
    Quote Originally Posted by FLArmadillo View Post
    I don't think any bad parenting saved that young girl's life, and I'd like to think that you don't either.

    This girl was lucky the BG wasn't armed or more determined than he was. If he was (this is the same guy that took a point blank .40 hit), she would be dead. Girl was lucky that many other things didn't happen. A grown man can take multiple .40 shots to the chest region (excluding heart/lungs), then proceed to murder a trained shooter, and then drive himself home. If you don't believe that, take a visit over to liveleak and check out some dash cam shootings.

    Armed or not, this girl should have never been allowed into this position, and THAT is the bad parenting part.
    Not one single person in this entire thread has said that the girl's actions did not save her life, because, obviously, they did, and that was not at all the point of my post.
    I wouldn't call it bad parenting. Like I said, we don't know what she's been taught about the gun. As far as not being allowed into that position, how would you have prevented that? Before you say you would fortify your compound, remember, this is a single mother of two.

    She's 12 years old. More than old enough to spend a few hours home alone. Heck, I know of 12 year old girls that are baby sitting other people's kids.

    As far as BG's surviving .40 hits, it was one shot that had already gone through a door. I wouldn't call that point blank, and I'm betting it was just a flesh wound. Had he actually opened the door, I'm betting he wouldn't have made it very far. I could point out quite a few instances where one shot from a .40 stopped a BG cold. Heck, I could find articles where one shot from a .22 dropped a BG! You and I both know that handguns are a crapshoot when it comes to stopping power.

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    6,542
    We had a rule in our house.... "if it ain't yours.. don't touch it" It applied to everything... guns too...

    Look, the gal had some training... she knew where the gun was... she knew how to hold it... and she knew when to pull the trigger... And she may have been told don't touch it without permission... And she may have been the type of child who minded her parents. Apparently was, in fact...

    Beats the "expert" showing the reporter how he shot the guy, and sweeping the cameraman the reporter with a loaded gun...

    This girl would have survived far worse trauma had she not did what she did... The guy had gotten out of lockup after abducting a mentally deficient teenage girl... what did he do to her? what would he have done to this one?

    Now, you want steel doors on closets, katy bars and all that... fine.. and not a bad idea... but "a little girl's got to know her limitations..." and she used the tools available to hand... to stop a possible child molester.

    Good for her.. good for her mom... in a better world the ash hat that was out of jail wouldn't have been... and we wouldn't need steel doors, katy bars or guns...

    pardon any typoos and such... left arm in a sling... one handed typoing... well, actually yes... typoing...
    Spidey2011 and Ransom like this.
    Politicians, take note of Colorado 9/10/2013.
    "You are elected to service, not power.
    Your job is to "serve us" not to lord power over us."
    Me, 9/11/13

  8. #52
    Member Array kante's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Formerly OKC, OK; Currently Karlsruhe, Germany
    Posts
    78
    Quote Originally Posted by FLArmadillo View Post
    Armed or not, this girl should have never been allowed into this position, and THAT is the bad parenting part.
    Not one single person in this entire thread has said that the girl's actions did not save her life, because, obviously, they did, and that was not at all the point of my post.
    I agree with you to a certain extend. Yes, the girl should have never been in this position. However, sometimes there is just no other chance! As far as i've read it, the girls mom is a single mom with a job (correct me if i'm wrong and getting facts mixed up here). Also, as far as i've read it, the mom tries to be with her daughter most of the times and limit her work hours to when her daughter is at school. Sounds like what any responsible single mom (or single dad for that matter) would do.

    However, sometime it just doesn't work that way, things aren't that easy. If something important comes up in her moms job, then the girl stayed alone for a few hours. I don't think her mother has the ability to tell her Boss or Customers to just wait for some other time, sadly most of us wouldn't have that ability. You are probably be able to pull the "sorry, my kid is alone, can't work now" once or twice, but i'm sure we would face the reality of looking for another job if we would do something like that too often..

    Unfortonately, this time some BG took advance of it.

    So... what i'm saying is: Calling it "bad parenting" if a 12 year old girl stays at home by herself for a few hours, might be a little over the top to me. Should the kid have been into a situation like that? Sure not, but sometimes you can't avoid it. We also should never be in a situation where we would have to use lethal force to defend ourselfes. But sometimes it just happen, by carelessness or because we thought we had no other choice at what led to that situation.
    Spidey2011 likes this.
    Regards, Mike

    The german american, now living in Germany, but surely missing home!

  9. #53
    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Osceola County, FL
    Posts
    264
    I shortened these quotes in the interest of being specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spidey2011 View Post
    She's 12 years old. More than old enough to spend a few hours home alone. Heck, I know of 12 year old girls that are baby sitting other people's kids.
    ...
    You and I both know that handguns are a crapshoot when it comes to stopping power.
    I don't have a problem with her being 12 and home alone, I was when I was 12 quite frequently, no real issue. The problem is Mom relied on the girl -who is not trained in self defense, home defense, etc- to use a firearm to defend herself from a violent would-be abductor, and as far as within the scope of the news, this was Mom's ONLY plan to ensure her daughters safety.

    And yes, that's exactly what I mean. A Glock .40 in the hands of an inexperienced 12-year-old shooter against a grown man is marginal at best. A grown man with his hands around the throat of a now disarmed 12-year-old girl is pretty effective (not to mention unacceptable).

    Quote Originally Posted by kante View Post
    However, sometime it just doesn't work that way, things aren't that easy. If something important comes up in her moms job, then the girl stayed alone for a few hours.
    ...
    So... what i'm saying is: Calling it "bad parenting" if a 12 year old girl stays at home by herself for a few hours, might be a little over the top to me. Should the kid have been into a situation like that? Sure not, but sometimes you can't avoid it. We also should never be in a situation where we would have to use lethal force to defend ourselves. But sometimes it just happen, by carelessness or because we thought we had no other choice at what led to that situation.
    Again, a 12-year-old home alone is not ideal, but really not a huge deal.

    My accusation of her mother comes from the fact that she KNOWS she gets called away periodically, and yet she took seemingly no steps to ensure her daughter's safety, other than leaving a firearm in the home that the girl has no experience shooting. There was no arrangement with a neighbor, no security doors, no prior planning (as evidenced by the "what do I do?" phone call to mom), nothing other than leaving your little girl to shoot it out to protect herself.

    Remember how we all say that shooting is a last resort? It SHOULD be, even if it's our home. The BG should have some hoops to jump through to get to the point where he is even in our home.

    Maybe these steps WERE taken, and the guy actually came in through a window or something; just saying that giving your daughter the gun and telling her to hide in the closet shouldn't be "Plan A", it should be "Plan C or D or E..."
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

  10. #54
    Member Array steffen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    396
    Quote Originally Posted by FLArmadillo View Post
    ... The BG should have some hoops to jump through to get to the point where he is even in our home.

    Maybe these steps WERE taken, and the guy actually came in through a window or something; just saying that giving your daughter the gun and telling her to hide in the closet shouldn't be "Plan A", it should be "Plan C or D or E..."
    I also shortened the quote since I want to just address the last part.

    Since we don't really know any exact details about the measures that the mother took to keep her daughter safe while home alone, I would like to know what your plan A and plan B would have been if you received the same phone call the mother did. I don't think there is any part of this story where I could jump to a conclusion and say that anyone other than the BG did anything wrong.
    1MoreGoodGuy likes this.

  11. #55
    Member Array Lindy1933's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Reno NV
    Posts
    206
    I am proud of a little girl I have never met. I set this article to everyone on my mailing list asking: "Why isn't this headlines on every newpaper, radio talk show and the rest of the MSM."
    Retired AF pilot, Vietnam FAC 1967-68

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
    Posts
    5,458
    Quote Originally Posted by Lindy1933 View Post
    I am proud of a little girl I have never met. I set this article to everyone on my mailing list asking: "Why isn't this headlines on every newpaper, radio talk show and the rest of the MSM."
    Because the good guys, or girl in this instance, WON by rightfully using a firearm in self-defense and that does not fit in with the liberal media's agenda.
    ep1953 likes this.
    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
    NRA Life Member
    GOA Life Member


    Behave Like Someone Who is Determined to be FREE!

  13. #57
    Senior Member Array ep1953's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kodak TN
    Posts
    1,070
    Quote Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy View Post
    Because the good guys, or girl in this instance, WON by rightfully using a firearm in self-defense and that does not fit in with the liberal media's agenda.
    Although I did see this story on FOX News but they only played it the one time as far as I know (and I pretty much have the TV on FNC all the time I am home).

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    KCMO
    Posts
    3,108
    For all the talk on this board about being prepared, training, have a plan, etc, it sure is surprising that aspect is being so ignored just b/c there was a good outcome.
    FLArmadillo likes this.

  15. #59
    Member Array FLArmadillo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Osceola County, FL
    Posts
    264
    Quote Originally Posted by steffen View Post
    Since we don't really know any exact details about the measures that the mother took to keep her daughter safe while home alone, I would like to know what your plan A and plan B would have been if you received the same phone call the mother did. I don't think there is any part of this story where I could jump to a conclusion and say that anyone other than the BG did anything wrong.
    I think my entire post was about some possible alternatives.

    And you kinda said yourself what the bottom line is for us in this story, and it's like what I said above "Maybe these steps WERE taken...", with what you wrote that I've bolded.

    If I got that phone call, in MY opinion, the way I live MY life, I've already failed. If my little girl cannot defend herself through whatever means necessary, she will not be alone, and if she is, she will be secured through whatever means I can (meaning good doors, good locks, security system, barking dogs, etc...). If I leave her in a defenseless position, I have failed by my own standard. And telling her the combination to the safe to get and use a gun she has no knowledge of is no defense; I can pretty much expect she's got a 50% chance of shooting herself and if she doesn't, she has 10% chance of shooting the BG at anything more than point blank.

    If your plan A or B come after the bad guy is already at your home, kicking down your door, well on his way to to kidnapping/murdering/raping your daughter, while you're on the phone with her, then that is a massive failure in planning to keep your family safe. Same reason we carry a gun; we plan AHEAD, and make provisions do defend ourselves if need be. Just like your weapon can't magically appear on you if you left it at home, a solid defensive strategy can't be made and put into action over the phone while the crime is already in commission.
    As we used to teach in the spook business, carry a 25 if it makes you feel good, but do not ever load it. If you load it you may shoot it. If you shoot it you may hit somebody, and if you hit somebody - and he finds out about it - he may be very angry with you. -- Jeff Cooper

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member
    Array accessbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    1,320

    Re: Fantastic! too young to have a gun of her own...

    Quote Originally Posted by nedrgr21 View Post
    For all the talk on this board about being prepared, training, have a plan, etc, it sure is surprising that aspect is being so ignored just b/c there was a good outcome.
    Not being ignored but realistic enough to know that someone can survive without all of that. It just gives you better odds of coming out okay if you do train and have a plan.

    Sent from my LG Optimus Elite using Tapatalk 2
    EDC - Glock 36 OR Glock 30, Ruger LC9, OR Ruger SR1911 CMD AND
    Ruger LCP in Desantis Pocket Holster (backup)
    Member - SAF, OFF,
    NRA Life Member

Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Search tags for this page

powered by article dashboard family gift
,
powered by article dashboard family safety
,
powered by article dashboard fox news reporters
,

powered by article dashboard gun show

,
powered by article dashboard lowes regional office
,
powered by article dashboard off topic forum
,

powered by article dashboard offtopic co

,
powered by article dashboard offtopic forums
,
powered by article dashboard offtopic op
,

powered by article dashboard regional office of education 02

,
powered by article dashboard regional office of education 2
,
powered by article dashboard st. clair regional office of education
,
powered by article dashboard super off topic
,
powered by article dashboard too young to be legal
,

powered by article dashboard will county regional office of education

Click on a term to search for related topics.