And I dont think anyone in this thread suggests using a gun to solve verbal insult conflicts (not that you necessarily did) but by not diffusing situations, they can escalate, as you pointed out....and unfortunately, they can find anyone who escalates a conflict as complicit....depends on the authorities and the jury.
IMO, it's just not worth it and YES, it can be very frustrating. I just think of everything I have to lose...it's more important than my ego and IMO, the principle IS higher than responding in kind.
OP, thank you for the share. I have had this talk with my son but not in those words ..... I believe we all have room to be reminded to be cool in the presents of adversity.
GrandZJ. I think you are misinterpreting the intent of the quote. I can apologize, tone down the situation, back away and not be submissive or spineless. You used the phrase "the means to defend themselves" and that is just it you do not use a firearm to defend yourself from a verbal attack nor to you intentionally or unintentionally escalate it to a physical attack simply because you are armed. As someone stated your attitude does not changed armed or unarmed.Quote:
I carry 24/7. I don't understand how some people can accept being submissive and spineless just because they have the means to defend themselves.
Lara you are correct to a point. Words alone cannot hurt you but this is where your situational awareness comes into the picture. If a man yells "Look at the butt on her" from across the street ignore it, or say thanks and walk away or whatever but should that same man now approach you now he has taken it into a different realm. If your demeanor and comments of back off, leave me alone, not interested are not successful and you feel physically threatened that is a whole new ball game.
There is a difference between responding to the insult with your own insult and getting into a cussing match with someone and when an insult occurs which if followed by the person coming towards you yelling insults and you assuming a defensive posture and stating "Stop, back off" and so on. The person's proximity, size, and other factors would all play into a disparity of force situation. If you already know what disparity of force is I apologize, but what that means is a person's size, training, number of persons and so on would come into play in a self defense situation and it is different for everyone especially for females. What causes me to believe my life it threatened is different for you.
Just like any other self defense situation you may not see a weapon until the last moment, you may not know he even has a weapon. The article nor anyone else is saying when confronted with a insult lay on the floor curl up and start crying. Simply ignore it, back down, apologize, don't get into it with them but if the insult now becomes a threat of physical harm do what is needed at that time to protect yourself.
Echo_Four. Depending on how your states self defense laws are written it means exactly that. Arkansas Use of deadly physical force laws state.Quote:
It is patently untrue that you are the aggressor simply because you chose not to lie down and take the insults. If the other person chooses to move to violence due to your verbal exchange he is the aggressor, not you.
(b) A person may not use deadly physical force in self-defense if the person knows that he or she can avoid the necessity of using deadly physical force with complete safety:
(1) (A) By retreating.
However, a person is not required to retreat if the person is: in the person's dwelling and was not the original aggressor
Calling your dog ugly and similar insults is not a justified reason for you to engage in combat with someone. Once you have backed down and made your intentions known and he they physically threatens you that is a different thing all together. If you start trading insults with some guy and it gets physical it is now a case of mutual combat. Punches are thrown, he pulls a knife you pull a gun, or simply you start getting thumped and draw your gun when you try explaining that to LE or in court that the original reason you got into the fight was that he insulted your dog I can assure you in court you will not win.Quote:
A person's use of physical force upon another person is justifiable if the person in good faith withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to the other person his or her purpose to withdraw from the encounter; and the other person continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful physical force; or the physical force involved is the product of a combat by agreement not authorized by law.
Now one thing I like about my states laws which are kept vague for a reason is the wording they use in the first quote "with complete safety". If I am backed physically into a corner and can't leave and he takes the altercation to a physical level I cannot retreat in complete safety so I will do whatever is needed. You have to read your own states laws.
MASSIVE I am sorry to hear of your situation both with the attack and where you live. Never turn your back. Back away then as stated if he turns the altercation physical, defend yourself or run whichever fits the moment.
No one is saying you do not have the right to defend yourself if and when the altercation becomes physical, but the mere fact someone bruises your ego and pride is not a reason to take it further.
It's about realizing just how little ground a person has to stand on, if claiming self-defense in a situation where one's own contributions were just as inflammatory and offensive. Realize, too, the fact that nearly every self-defense and use-of-force statute across the country declares a person cannot claim self-defense in such situations where one has contributed to the fight in such ways. A claim of "ego" won't cut it, as a defense.
To say nothing of the "reasonable man" standard, which is what the use-of-force statutes typically include as a key element for such claims of "defending" oneself. Quite simply, it means that other people get to determine whether our actions were reasonable. And who really wants such people determining, after the fact, that a person was just, in taking that life when it wasn't truly, unavoidably necessary?
Such can all too easily result in social stigma, financial ruin, imprisonment (with a felony record), damage to our relationships with our loved ones, death of another by our own hand, etc. "Spinelessness," eh? Sounds like common sense and rationality, to me.
The benefits are self-evident.
In seeking to help upstanding citizens keep above this morass, Massad Ayoob strongly recommends the A.O.J. (ability, opportunity, jeopardy) standard of behavior in such situations, beyond any requirements of the statutes. In one phrase, essentially, he states that:
The justified use of lethal force requires that the innocent be in immediate and otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm.
Words to live by.
Hummmmm.. interesting comments.
Everyone needs to do , whatever it is they think is the best thing to do in the situation in which they find themselves.
I think "most" situations where you will required to possibly defend yourself, won't be a result of an argument, or opinionated person ...... but a robbery, burglar, house invasion, etc.
But it's wise advice to not get into a macho mode and think that they can take on the world, be a wannabe LEO, or anything else ... because they are carrying a gun. That's pure stupidity in it's raw form.
the best advice I ever got was .... don't ever 'start' a fight, because there is always someone that's faster, tougher, stronger, or is better than you are..... and the day you initiate a fight, may be the day you also meet them.
My attitude does not change whether I'm armed or not. To keep things civil I'll leave it at that.
Fair enough, your choice
"Control" applies to alot more in gun ownership than just triggers, that's for sure. If you cant control your mouth or your emotions....heh, I know you, I see you all the time with another deadly weapon.....driving on the roads acting like a 5 yr old having a temper tantrum.
ONLY THING I DISAGREE WITH,,,,, no statement will I give UNTIL MY LAWYER ARRIVES,,,, and
probably not EVEN THEN,,,,, nothing you can say will HELP YOU,,,,, CAN ONLY HURT,,,, anything
that helps YOU, WILL BE RULED HERE SAY.
Types of things the police might tell you to get you to talk to them:
"If you don't answer my questions, I'll have no choice but to arrest you. Do you want to go to jail?" (They will arrest you either way.)
"You're not a suspect - just help us understand what happened here and then you can go." (They will arrest you after you talk.)
"If you don't answer my questions, I'm going to charge you with resisting arrest." (They will arrest you either way)
"All of your friends have cooperated and we let them go home. You're the only one left." (They will arrest you either way.)
"You are just here voluntarily and we appreciate you helping us with this. You are free to leave at any time." (If you try to leave, they arrest you.)
More info at:
I always try to avoid confrontation...with or without a gun.
Good post. but.
I carry two guns... One for the lippy bastages... and one for their supporters. Ain't no one gonna talk down to me... I told the sheriff I wanted a permit so people couldn't pick on me any more... He gave me a sash to go with it... And I wear that all the time, too... People give me wide berth... no one messes with me...
I used to be in retail... people are jerks... and those that talk to me now... well, they're really nice and respectful... But I'm ready if they ain't.
Of course, I'm joking...
I don't have the money to test the waters of mutual escalation in a court of law... and see if I come out on top or not.