Ammo Penetration Thru Winter Clothing, Especially .45acp?

Ammo Penetration Thru Winter Clothing, Especially .45acp?

This is a discussion on Ammo Penetration Thru Winter Clothing, Especially .45acp? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Where I live even BGs would need heavy winter clothing, parkas, leather or similar etc. - I use in .38spl Buffalo Bore which has 3 ...

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Thread: Ammo Penetration Thru Winter Clothing, Especially .45acp?

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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Ammo Penetration Thru Winter Clothing, Especially .45acp?

    Where I live even BGs would need heavy winter clothing, parkas, leather or similar etc. - I use in .38spl Buffalo Bore which has 3 choices in that round, one is a hardened wadcutter with penetration of 16" - 18" on Buffalo Bore's tests and more on others tests - even a gelatin result of 23" penetration on one. Also its rigged to be close to speed of +P without actually being +P, partly to accommodate older revolvers that were not designed to shoot steady loads of +P - guess you could Carry that and practice with standard .38 but that's a big difference in feel. Buffalo Bore is so good you wouldn't need a +P even if it was a modern revolver. So, great defensive ammo for winter.

    But I also have 2 guns in .45acp and 1 in 9mm. What about the big but slow .45 ? - the Big-part wouldn't help penetration thru leather with a lining or a thick parka - yet tests are not run with that material so who knows.

    The 9mm is faster, but the .45 I wonder about.

    Any thoughts?
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    Senior Member Array Happypuppy's Avatar
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    Ammo Penetration Thru Winter Clothing, Especially .45acp?

    Most of the ammo companies have the FBI numbers under Law Enforcement. I prefer Federal HST or Speer Gold Dots. Here are my preferred loads in 9mm and 45 ACP under the FBI Heavy Clothing Protocol.

    http://le.atk.com/ammunition/speer/h...=53617%2C53966

    Basically , both are fine. I like the 124 +p in 9mm ( used by NYPD year round)
    And the 230 .45 Gold Dot standard. Play with loads and the grid to find out what you believe your best choice to carry maybe.


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    Distinguished Member Array miller_man's Avatar
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    Just my opion but ...
    I really don't have any doubts that qaulity 38, 9, 40, 45 heck prob even 380 will pentrate almost all or any heavy winter clothing combo's.

    You don't really hear of people putting on heavy winter coats as a cheap alternative to body armor.

    Boxotruth has some good info and tests, go check it out.
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    VIP Member Array OldVet's Avatar
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    I think the issue with winter clothing is clogging of the hollow points and the resultant failure to expand rather than a penetration problem. If goose-down vest were bullet proof there'd be a much bigger market for them. A good hardcast lead bullet will penetrate very well.

    Here in S.FL there isn't much difference between winter and summer T-shirts.
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    VIP Member Array multistage's Avatar
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    A guy doesn't need to turn this into a science. A good gun with good ammo (Gold Dot, HST, Ranger, and all the rest) will get you out of a bind. It gets cold here as well, and I have yet to see the coat and heavy shirts that I would trust to stop a bullet. If carrying a 45 makes you feel better, run it. Keep in mind, that bullet will penetrate and put a minimum of a 45 caliber hole through a problem. Lots of guys run ball in their 1911s.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I think the issue with winter clothing is clogging of the hollow points and the resultant failure to expand rather than a penetration problem. If goose-down vest were bullet proof there'd be a much bigger market for them. A good hardcast lead bullet will penetrate very well.
    And at the worst, a clogged HP works a lot like plain old FMJ, which has a pretty good track record in .45 ACP.
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    Member Array Yetiman's Avatar
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    In the winter in Wi I use 165gr Cor-Bon Pow'r Ball .45 ammo in my Officers ACP. Actually I use it in there year round, and in the Kobra Carry in the winter.
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    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Which gun do you shoot better with gloves on?
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    Ex Member Array detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happypuppy View Post
    Most of the ammo companies have the FBI numbers under Law Enforcement. I prefer Federal HST or Speer Gold Dots. Here are my preferred loads in 9mm and 45 ACP under the FBI Heavy Clothing Protocol.

    Law Enforcement - Federal Premium LE, Speer LE, BLACKHAWK!, Eagle - Handgun Compare

    Basically , both are fine. I like the 124 +p in 9mm ( used by NYPD year round)
    And the 230 .45 Gold Dot standard. Play with loads and the grid to find out what you believe your best choice to carry maybe.


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    FROM OP:

    I use Winchester Ranger think it's "T" - Law Enforcement ammo so seems that would be OK. Thanks for that info!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    I think the issue with winter clothing is clogging of the hollow points and the resultant failure to expand rather than a penetration problem. If goose-down vest were bullet proof there'd be a much bigger market for them. A good hardcast lead bullet will penetrate very well.

    Here in S.FL there isn't much difference between winter and summer T-shirts.
    Maybe you export that type winter weather to the North ? - that would solve ammo and other winter problems, like freezing every time you walk outside.

    Seriously, thanks for your insight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by multistage View Post
    A guy doesn't need to turn this into a science. A good gun with good ammo (Gold Dot, HST, Ranger, and all the rest) will get you out of a bind. It gets cold here as well, and I have yet to see the coat and heavy shirts that I would trust to stop a bullet. If carrying a 45 makes you feel better, run it. Keep in mind, that bullet will penetrate and put a minimum of a 45 caliber hole through a problem. Lots of guys run ball in their 1911s.
    "Lots of guys run ball in their 1911s."

    You mean just for winter or all the time?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Which gun do you shoot better with gloves on?
    I can't shoot any of them well with gloves, even the 9mm Beretta 92FS, our Military's handgun (Greeeaaat gun) and made to accommodate gloves - but trigger guard too tight for my finger in a glove; I don't know why, I have skinny fingers.

    Only thing I do: I've learned to have shooting hand glove loose and can whip my hand fast to have it fly off and then draw. Best I can do. I have to have gloves. My hands would get too cold to use and my fingertips frost-bitten. (This is when I walk outside which for certain reasons I have to sometimes. br-r-r-rr-r)

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    Ex Member Array DetChris's Avatar
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    Well my penetration thread got closed (for good reason, I admit - my bad for starting it and not searching first) so I'll ask it in this zombie thread:

    In winter, is FMJ preferred over hollow point? To guarantee penetration thru thick winter clothes?


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    Ex Member Array Longstreet's Avatar
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    For winter clothing, you want slower-moving, sub-sonic ammo. In 9mm, for example, 124 grain is not your best choice. Carry 147 grain that will dig farther. A simple rule is that, the more clothing layers forming a barrier, the slower moving ammo you want to get through it. For .45, 180 grain would be the wrong choice. You want 230 grain ammo.
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    VIP Member Array Nmuskier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    Which gun do you shoot better with gloves on?
    Good point. How often do we discuss penetration of heavy layers, but ignore how we attack heavy layers?

    230 gr. .45ACP. HST, Speer Gold Dots, Win PDX-1

    147gr 9mm, or 124gr +P
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