New to Forum...devils advocate

This is a discussion on New to Forum...devils advocate within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If MO is like NC you'll be required to take a day or two long classroom session where you're heavily bombarded with all the legalities ...

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  1. #16
    Ex Member Array dbglock's Avatar
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    If MO is like NC you'll be required to take a day or two long classroom session where you're heavily bombarded with all the legalities concerned with carrying a concealed weapon in your state. Then you'll have to pass a test on it. I'm a walking encyclopedia of NC gun law, due to the class plus my own research. Of course the fun part is the range test.

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array ghost tracker's Avatar
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    Not pickin' a fight but IMHO you should get clear separating the obvious myth of what you're heard from the letter & intent of concealed carry laws. Until you're grounded in good intel, making the permit decision is like avoiding travel to Maui because someone told you there are cannibals there.
    There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array Caertaker's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum from S.E. Michigan. I'm glad to see you voicing your concerns and not surprised to see solid responses. I hope you enjoy the time you spend here.
    "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Here are a few basic places to start, for Missouri state carry laws and overviews.

    HandgunLaw.us/states/missouri.pdf

    Missouri Revised Statutes -- RSMO 571, Weapons Offenses

    Missouri Revised Statutes -- RSMO 563, Defense (Use of Force)

    Missouri Concealed Carry -- forum, information, community related to carry of firearms in Missouri

    Another exceptional resource: In The Gravest Extreme, by Massad Ayoob. A great overview of the pros/cons of carrying a defensive firearm, related use-of-force responsibilities and risks. IMO, this book is required reading for anyone contemplating concealed carry.
    Blackheart6 likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #20
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    Array OldVet's Avatar
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    You've made a lot of general assumptions about carrying, much of which is either wrong or doesn't apply equally from state to state.

    There are fifty sets of laws concerning firearms, carrying, and the use of deadly force, regardless of whether in your house, your car, or anywhere in public. Each state differs from the rest, some slightly, some to the extremes.

    No one needs a concealed firearm . . . until they need it. Diligent research is needed on your part.
    Retired USAF E-8. Avatar is OldVet from days long gone. Oh, to be young again.
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... "For What It's Worth" Buffalo Springfield

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Great info so far. As to permit tied to DL (which it is in MO), get a FL non-resident permit.

  8. #22
    Member Array Blackheart6's Avatar
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    Yes, in Mo people over 21 are allowed to keep a weapon in their vehicles without a permit. My advice to you would be to take the conceal carry course through the most reputable person in St. Louis. Do some research on this, you don't want the cheapest, that has you bring the bare minimum of rounds required by MO, they should emphasize legal aspects in their course description. During class and breaks you will get to ask any and all questions you have, and have them answered by someone who should have solid answers. Have a list of questions ready and write the answers down. Your instructor should be able to give you the name(s) of lawyers you could contact for future use, and questions they can not answer.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array oakchas's Avatar
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    As of 2009 (IIRC) The National Safety Council claimed that your odds of dying were one in 314 (over your lifetime) of being killed in a firearm assault.

    Your odds of having a reportable house fire are about the same... You probably have a fire extinguisher in or near your kitchen... Is it "worth it?"

    Regardless of cliches I posted earlier, or the above statistics; if I lived in a metropolitan area or near one... Like St. Louis, KC, Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix, what have you... I would most assuredly carry. I didn't list Chicago or NYC because I would never live there... Because I could not carry.

    Play Devil's Advocate all you want... You can carry, or not, as you wish... I live in the sticks... I work in a smaller metro area (100,000 pop) I carry.

    Here's a thought provoking article that I carried with me in the 1980's, it's a little long winded, but worth the effort.

    Letter From An Angry Reader (Sept, 1981 Esquire Magazine)
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  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array Black Knight's Avatar
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    First welcome to the forum from Virginia. Before you make up your mind please take an approved class from a competent instructor. Your instructor should be able to answer all your questions. If they can't then they should find out and get back to you. As long as you are still considering and asking questions that indicates to me that you take carry seriously which you should.

  11. #25
    New Member Array SignalZero's Avatar
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    Our dispatchers (depending on how good they are) will run a name through the State database and let an officer know if the driver they have stopped has a CCW issued to them. Whether or not they are in possession of a firearm is something that will only come up if the driver volunteers this information or if the officer asks. I had many encounters where the driver immediately told me that they were armed even before I had a chance to greet them. I ALWAYS let these folks off with a verbal warning as a courtesy and never found myself overly concerned with the guy or gal who readily shared this information with me. I will say this: many of the folks I worked with ask armed citizens to exit their cars and produce their firearms while they ran driver license/CCW permit checks. This made a 5 minute traffic stop a 10 minute traffic stop and I always saw that as unfairly inconveniencing someone who was trying to do the right thing...

    P.S.

    In line with Black Knight's reply, if you are going to do it...get good training. This is something that you don't want to get into blindly because it can do you just as much harm as good. Exercise your right to protect yourself bud...

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    As long as you are still considering and asking questions that indicates to me that you take carry seriously which you should.
    Good point.

    Here are some of the questions I had asked myself while initially contemplating the concept of carrying a defensive firearm: To Carry or Not to Carry - What thinking did you go through?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benandjoesdad View Post
    I'm debating getting the CCW permit

    I'm concerned that getting the permit will garner unwanted attention.

    If pulled over in my car I am automatically identified as a CCW holder. This could present a problem when I travel by car especially through Illinois whether I have a firearm or not.

    The penalties for DUI as CCW holder are exponentially worse. Though I have no intention of driving while intoxicated will I automatically be suspected if pulled over?

    Most states honor castle law so I can keep in my car anyway.

    If I need to use a firearm without a CCW I'm not sure that the penalties outweigh the actual result.

    I understand there are laws and my intention is to obey them. I'm just not sure if its worth the trouble either way
    So, you are worried about having a CCL because of the laws.... that you never intend to violate ?? That's a bit confusing.

    If you don't want one, don't get one.... but don't carry illegally. Second, having a loaded firearm in your car .... especially if you do NOT have a CCL , is not legal in many states. If you have a CCL here, it's legal, however if you don't have a CCL ... it is NOT legal to do.
    I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
    Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    WHat penalties exactly?

    And if you are traveling anywhere, you need to know and follow those laws.

    If a cop pulls you over and acts improperly, you take the high ground, and then report his unprofessionalism to his dept.

    I dont know your reasons for wanting to conceal carry. I know mine and none of this stuff outweighs it.

    I havent found my permit to be 'any trouble' at all. I've been pulled over a few times (lights out, tabs expired, etc) and never a blink from the cops who get that info on the computer.

    And welcome to the forum
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by oakchas View Post
    Here's a thought provoking article that I carried with me in the 1980's, it's a little long winded, but worth the effort.

    Letter From An Angry Reader (Sept, 1981 Esquire Magazine)
    Thanks for the link - I saved that article from when I used to subscribe to Esquire, but lost it when I moved. It's timeless.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  16. #30
    Member Array MASSIVE's Avatar
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    Oy, that was a bit longer of a read than I was expecting -- But worth every word.
    NRA Life / Endowment UT, FL, passed and waiting for IL at the moment.

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