New to Forum...devils advocate
This is a discussion on New to Forum...devils advocate within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; If MO is like NC you'll be required to take a day or two long classroom session where you're heavily bombarded with all the legalities ...
October 31st, 2012 11:30 AM
If MO is like NC you'll be required to take a day or two long classroom session where you're heavily bombarded with all the legalities concerned with carrying a concealed weapon in your state. Then you'll have to pass a test on it. I'm a walking encyclopedia of NC gun law, due to the class plus my own research. Of course the fun part is the range test.
October 31st, 2012 11:30 AM
Not pickin' a fight but IMHO you should get clear separating the obvious myth of what you're heard from the letter & intent of concealed carry laws. Until you're grounded in good intel, making the permit decision is like avoiding travel to Maui because someone told you there are cannibals there.
There are only TWO kinds of people in this world; those who describe the world as filled with two kinds of people...and those who don't.
October 31st, 2012 11:35 AM
Welcome to the forum from S.E. Michigan. I'm glad to see you voicing your concerns and not surprised to see solid responses. I hope you enjoy the time you spend here.
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpations” – James Madison 1788
October 31st, 2012 11:47 AM
Here are a few basic places to start, for Missouri state carry laws and overviews.
Missouri Revised Statutes -- RSMO 571, Weapons Offenses
Missouri Revised Statutes -- RSMO 563, Defense (Use of Force)
Missouri Concealed Carry -- forum, information, community related to carry of firearms in Missouri
Another exceptional resource: In The Gravest Extreme, by Massad Ayoob. A great overview of the pros/cons of carrying a defensive firearm, related use-of-force responsibilities and risks. IMO, this book is required reading for anyone contemplating concealed carry.
October 31st, 2012 12:32 PM
You've made a lot of general assumptions about carrying, much of which is either wrong or doesn't apply equally from state to state.
There are fifty sets of laws concerning firearms, carrying, and the use of deadly force, regardless of whether in your house, your car, or anywhere in public. Each state differs from the rest, some slightly, some to the extremes.
No one needs a concealed firearm . . . until they need it. Diligent research is needed on your part.
Retired USAF E-8. Curmudgeon at large. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid...
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth
October 31st, 2012 01:41 PM
Great info so far. As to permit tied to DL (which it is in MO), get a FL non-resident permit.
October 31st, 2012 03:26 PM
Yes, in Mo people over 21 are allowed to keep a weapon in their vehicles without a permit. My advice to you would be to take the conceal carry course through the most reputable person in St. Louis. Do some research on this, you don't want the cheapest, that has you bring the bare minimum of rounds required by MO, they should emphasize legal aspects in their course description. During class and breaks you will get to ask any and all questions you have, and have them answered by someone who should have solid answers. Have a list of questions ready and write the answers down. Your instructor should be able to give you the name(s) of lawyers you could contact for future use, and questions they can not answer.
October 31st, 2012 04:03 PM
As of 2009 (IIRC) The National Safety Council claimed that your odds of dying were one in 314 (over your lifetime) of being killed in a firearm assault.
Your odds of having a reportable house fire are about the same... You probably have a fire extinguisher in or near your kitchen... Is it "worth it?"
Regardless of cliches I posted earlier, or the above statistics; if I lived in a metropolitan area or near one... Like St. Louis, KC, Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix, what have you... I would most assuredly carry. I didn't list Chicago or NYC because I would never live there... Because I could not carry.
Play Devil's Advocate all you want... You can carry, or not, as you wish... I live in the sticks... I work in a smaller metro area (100,000 pop) I carry.
Here's a thought provoking article that I carried with me in the 1980's, it's a little long winded, but worth the effort.
Letter From An Angry Reader (Sept, 1981 Esquire Magazine)
It could be worse!
October 31st, 2012 04:53 PM
First welcome to the forum from Virginia. Before you make up your mind please take an approved class from a competent instructor. Your instructor should be able to answer all your questions. If they can't then they should find out and get back to you. As long as you are still considering and asking questions that indicates to me that you take carry seriously which you should.
October 31st, 2012 05:00 PM
Our dispatchers (depending on how good they are) will run a name through the State database and let an officer know if the driver they have stopped has a CCW issued to them. Whether or not they are in possession of a firearm is something that will only come up if the driver volunteers this information or if the officer asks. I had many encounters where the driver immediately told me that they were armed even before I had a chance to greet them. I ALWAYS let these folks off with a verbal warning as a courtesy and never found myself overly concerned with the guy or gal who readily shared this information with me. I will say this: many of the folks I worked with ask armed citizens to exit their cars and produce their firearms while they ran driver license/CCW permit checks. This made a 5 minute traffic stop a 10 minute traffic stop and I always saw that as unfairly inconveniencing someone who was trying to do the right thing...
In line with Black Knight's reply, if you are going to do it...get good training. This is something that you don't want to get into blindly because it can do you just as much harm as good. Exercise your right to protect yourself bud...
October 31st, 2012 11:17 PM
As long as you are still considering and asking questions that indicates to me that you take carry seriously which you should.
Here are some of the questions I had asked myself while initially contemplating the concept of carrying a defensive firearm: To Carry or Not to Carry - What thinking did you go through?
October 31st, 2012 11:55 PM
So, you are worried about having a CCL because of the laws.... that you never intend to violate ?? That's a bit confusing.
Originally Posted by Benandjoesdad
If you don't want one, don't get one.... but don't carry illegally. Second, having a loaded firearm in your car .... especially if you do NOT have a CCL , is not legal in many states. If you have a CCL here, it's legal, however if you don't have a CCL ... it is NOT legal to do.
I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. --- Will Rogers ---
Chief Justice John Roberts : "I don't see how you can read Heller and not take away from it the notion that the Second Amendment...was extremely important to the framers in their view of what liberty meant."
November 1st, 2012 12:40 AM
WHat penalties exactly?
And if you are traveling anywhere, you need to know and follow those laws.
If a cop pulls you over and acts improperly, you take the high ground, and then report his unprofessionalism to his dept.
I dont know your reasons for wanting to conceal carry. I know mine and none of this stuff outweighs it.
I havent found my permit to be 'any trouble' at all. I've been pulled over a few times (lights out, tabs expired, etc) and never a blink from the cops who get that info on the computer.
And welcome to the forum
Fortune favors the bold.
Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.
The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)
November 1st, 2012 10:38 AM
Thanks for the link - I saved that article from when I used to subscribe to Esquire, but lost it when I moved. It's timeless.
Originally Posted by oakchas
AZCDL Life Member
NRA Patron Member
NROI Chief Range Officer
November 1st, 2012 12:03 PM
Oy, that was a bit longer of a read than I was expecting -- But worth every word.
NRA Life / Endowment UT, FL, IL
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