FL- crowd size limits?

This is a discussion on FL- crowd size limits? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey yall- I am in FL and had a question pertaining to something the instructor of my CWFL class said. She mentioned something to the ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array ghillie's Avatar
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    FL- crowd size limits?

    Hey yall-
    I am in FL and had a question pertaining to something the instructor of my CWFL class said. She mentioned something to the effect that it was not legal to carry at an auditorium or stadium where there were more than a certain number of people present (for arguments sake let's say 3000 as im not sure what number she said). However, I was rereading F.S. 790 and was not able to find any such verbiage. Was this a situation where she was trying to make the laws easier to understand (much like the non-existent 3 step rule) or was I looking in the wrong place? I understand the college and professional sporting events part and think maybe that was what she was explaining. My major concern however is for things like concerts performed at block parties which are very common in my area.

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    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    another question per the wording. What constitutes "professional"? I go to local sporting events that are not among "professional athletes" that have an entrance fee. Athletes are unpaid, but there is an admission fee. Is that a "professional sporting event"?

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    Just a thought but have you considered calling your instructor and ask for clarification? Most instructors have documentation on statutes and are more than happy to clarify for past students. That way you know for sure what she was referring to.
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    No idea on the OP's question. As for the second posters question. I would say NO, it is not a professional sporting event, since the athletes are not paid. Would be like a street racer. Although you may run through the streets like a Formula 1 driver, your not getting paid and are not a "professional" driver.
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    Member Array ghillie's Avatar
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    Unfortunately I took my course at a gun show and can't remember the lady's name. Otherwise that would be my course of action.

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    Your certificate doesn't have the company and instructors name on it?
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    "Crowd" is a very inexact quantity. It could be considered three as in "Two's company, three's a crowd". I have no idea what number your instructor could have been thinking of.
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    Senior Member Array The Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghillie View Post
    Unfortunately I took my course at a gun show and can't remember the lady's name. Otherwise that would be my course of action.
    Sorry but if you took the course at a gun show you have already made a big mistake.
    If this instructor mentioned the 3 step rule she was wrong...their is no such thing.
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    Your instructor is full of poop, to say it mildly.
    Here's the FL statute of prohibited places:
    790.06
    (12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
    1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
    2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
    3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
    4. Any courthouse;
    5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
    6. Any polling place;
    7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
    8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
    9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
    10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;
    11. Any career center;
    12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
    13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
    14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
    15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
    (b) A person licensed under this section shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes.
    (c) This section does not modify the terms or conditions of s. 790.251(7).
    (d) Any person who knowingly and willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    No where does it mention a public gathering or size of the crowd. I highlighted the one provision about "professional athletic events. That would be an event with "paid" participants. A high school football game would not be a "professional athletic event" but would fall under the "school, college, or..." athletic event prohibitation.

    Street concerts do not fall under the prohibited places listed in statute 790.
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    A gun course at a gun show?
    I got a tattoo in a van at a flea market once... that was a bad idea too.
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    (12) No license issued pursuant to this section shall authorize any person to carry a concealed weapon or firearm into any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05; any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station; any detention facility, prison, or jail; any courthouse; any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom; any polling place; any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district; any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof; any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms; any school administration building; any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose; any elementary or secondary school facility; any area technical center; any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile; inside the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law. Any person who willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
    Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

    Absolutely nothing about crowd size. And if there was, what are you expected to do, count every five minutes to see if the crowd around you has grown too large?
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    Reminds me of Georgia's prohibition against carrying at:
    Public Gatherings, including sporting events, public buildings, and establishments where alcohol is served. O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127. Furthermore, possession of firearms in the State Capitol building is expressly prohibited by O.C.G.A. § 16-11-134(b).
    I remember that this prohibition was stricter at one time including maybe religious and political gatherings but maybe I'm mistaken. Anyway, I doubt that there's a magic number below which there is no violation and at or above it is a violation. It's more the characteristic of the event than enumerating those gathering there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldVet View Post
    Your instructor is full of poop, to say it mildly.
    Here's the FL statute of prohibited places:
    790.06
    (12)(a) A license issued under this section does not authorize any person to openly carry a handgun or carry a concealed weapon or firearm into:
    1. Any place of nuisance as defined in s. 823.05;
    2. Any police, sheriff, or highway patrol station;
    3. Any detention facility, prison, or jail;
    4. Any courthouse;
    5. Any courtroom, except that nothing in this section would preclude a judge from carrying a concealed weapon or determining who will carry a concealed weapon in his or her courtroom;
    6. Any polling place;
    7. Any meeting of the governing body of a county, public school district, municipality, or special district;
    8. Any meeting of the Legislature or a committee thereof;
    9. Any school, college, or professional athletic event not related to firearms;
    10. Any elementary or secondary school facility or administration building;
    11. Any career center;
    12. Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to such purpose;
    13. Any college or university facility unless the licensee is a registered student, employee, or faculty member of such college or university and the weapon is a stun gun or nonlethal electric weapon or device designed solely for defensive purposes and the weapon does not fire a dart or projectile;
    14. The inside of the passenger terminal and sterile area of any airport, provided that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, which firearm is encased for shipment for purposes of checking such firearm as baggage to be lawfully transported on any aircraft; or
    15. Any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
    (b) A person licensed under this section shall not be prohibited from carrying or storing a firearm in a vehicle for lawful purposes.
    (c) This section does not modify the terms or conditions of s. 790.251(7).
    (d) Any person who knowingly and willfully violates any provision of this subsection commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    No where does it mention a public gathering or size of the crowd. I highlighted the one provision about "professional athletic events. That would be an event with "paid" participants. A high school football game would not be a "professional athletic event" but would fall under the "school, college, or..." athletic event prohibitation.

    Street concerts do not fall under the prohibited places listed in statute 790.
    All concerts are open for carry there is no provision that addresses or prohibits carry in a crowd.

    Either you mistook what your instructor said or he/she is an idiot.
    A word to the wise isn't necessary, save it for the stupid

  15. #14
    Member Array ghillie's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies y'all. Acouple things-
    I know the gun show course was less than ideal, but it was what worked for my schedule and budget. I figured I'd rely on my own proficiency and knowledge as it pertained to firearms, and thoroughly read the statutes. As was pointed out, the statutes do not list large gatherings as a prohibited place. It is entirely possible that I misunderstood the instructor. She did explicitly debunk the three-step rule. Even went so far as to examine the definition of "securely encased" and give examples of what would or would not qualify.
    I'll count my question as answered however. Fine to carry at block parties. In that same vein however, where do beer tents fall? I couldn't decide if they would qualify as "such portion of an establishment" because they are temporary setups but are made for the solepurpose of selling alcohol. No desire to be a test case for that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    Reminds me of Georgia's prohibition against carrying at:
    Public Gatherings, including sporting events, public buildings, and establishments where alcohol is served. O.C.G.A. § 16-11-127. Furthermore, possession of firearms in the State Capitol building is expressly prohibited by O.C.G.A. § 16-11-134(b).
    I remember that this prohibition was stricter at one time including maybe religious and political gatherings but maybe I'm mistaken. Anyway, I doubt that there's a magic number below which there is no violation and at or above it is a violation. It's more the characteristic of the event than enumerating those gathering there.
    I don't know about the OP question, but GA has done away with the Public Gathering prohibition.

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