Rant: From NRA "Armed Citizens"

Another thing to remember is most of the SD situations you read about involve handguns. The truth is handguns just aren't as "deadly" as the MSM & the Brady Bunch would have you believe. Almost any wound inflicted by a handgun (short of a "heart" shot; or a shot that destroys the brain stem) are survivable if prompt medical attention is administered.

Real life just isn't like Hollywood; where one shot immediately knocks the BG down & kills him instantly.

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1. It's easy to criticize when you weren't there.
2. It's easy to criticize when you always shoot perfect scores on the range, with no one shooting back at you.
3. It's easy to criticize when most of your training has been on TV, or the movies.
4. Pistols are relatively weak tools for inflicting mortal wounds.

Here's a perfect example from today's very news, Durham NC's "hood" to be specific.

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Officers said they responded to a shooting call about 10 p.m. Monday in the 600 block of North Driver Street and found Jelani Kaumua Dandy in the road with several gunshot wounds. He was taken to Duke University Hospital, where he was in critical condition Tuesday.

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Another day in the 'hood, Durham-style

I think a lot of the "live" bad guys is due to our medical advances. Think about the huge change in survival rates from previous wars to now (but with an increased number of disabled/amputees/etc.). What used to be a deadly wound is now survivable thanks to modern medicine.

Another factor is that we are not shooting to kill, but to stop the threat. Once the BG is on the ground and out of the fight we aren't normally going to keep shooting.

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Originally Posted by StevePVB

I think a lot of the "live" bad guys is due to our medical advances. Think about the huge change in survival rates from previous wars to now (but with an increased number of disabled/amputees/etc.). What used to be a deadly wound is now survivable thanks to modern medicine.

Another factor is that we are not shooting to kill, but to stop the threat. Once the BG is on the ground and out of the fight we aren't normally going to keep shooting.

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That's correct, and it explains why whenever a homicide detective finds a victim with 47 stab wounds, 14 gunshot wounds, 8 blows from a blunt instrument along with evidence of strangulation, they think one thing: family.

I was thinking suicide

George

Since this is about round count, here is an interesting factoid: In Viet Nam it is stated that the US troops fire 50,000* rounds per body count! Of course that includes mini-guns, etc.

*Unverified!

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Originally Posted by mastercapt

Are all those citizens really bad shooters, or using "mouse guns, or what?
Or am I reading into this too much?

If all guns kill, there must be a lot of defective ones out there (Pun intended)

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IMO, the key is: some shots cause enough damage to stop; fewer still, kill.

The only way to know the causal factors is to have each and ever situation documented to a fare-thee-well, which ain't gonna happen. So, who's to say. I'm sure you're right, that some are just crappy (unpracticed) shooters, while the chemical dump in some is grossly affecting their aim, while still others are striking the target with less-than-lethal shots, with some striking sufficiently deeply/accurately to make quick work of things.

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Originally Posted by DaGunny

Could be "All of the Above." In a fight-or-flight situation, your adrenalin is spiking and you are scared out-of-your-mind. That's where your training and reflexes kick in. Most folks have never trained to be in a gunfight. They maybe go to the range a few times a year & poke holes in paper. So, their gun control reflects their training.

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I agree... that should make over 90% of folks (including myself) on this forum. What Hollywood shows is way way different in real life. :mad:

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Originally Posted by mastercapt

I picked up some American Riflemans magazine which a friend was discarding.
I liked reading thru the armed citizen columbs where the citizen triumps over the BG. However:

There are many articles where the citizen shot the BG, sometimes multiple times, and "The BG was arrested at the hospital where <he> sought medical for his wounds" Are all those citizens really bad shooters, or using "mouse guns, or what?
Or am I reading into this too much?

If all guns kill, there must be a lot of defective ones out there (Pun intended)

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Good question... but REMEMBER, "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." :wave:

From what I read, most statistics says a majority of attacks happen within 10 feet away from you and it's all over within 20 seconds (if you don't put up a fight).

If you aren't trained for a gun fight, you will be lucky even to get the gun out of the holster within those 10 seconds... forget about firing a round. :confused:

Hence, train.. train... train.

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Originally Posted by tcox4freedom

Another thing to remember is most of the SD situations you read about involve handguns. The truth is handguns just aren't as "deadly" as the MSM & the Brady Bunch would have you believe. Almost any wound inflicted by a handgun (short of a "heart" shot; or a shot that destroys the brain stem) are survivable if prompt medical attention is administered.

Real life just isn't like Hollywood; where one shot immediately knocks the BG down & kills him instantly.

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Agreed.. handgun calibers don't make any difference, it's all about a well placed shot.
Remember, Robert Kennedy was killed with a single .22 shot that went in just below his right ear. Also, Zimmerman killed that African American kid with a .380 bullet.

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Originally Posted by VA_Glocker

...Zimmerman killed that African American kid with a .380 bullet.

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What do base that statement on?

Zimmerman used a KelTec PF9, 9mm.

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Originally Posted by TheConcealer

Zimmerman used a KelTec PF9, 9mm.

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That is correct.
They showed it on the news right after the shooting.

I had training a long time ago on defense shooting from a police firearms instructor.
However, in those days, they stressed double tap (they carried model 19 357 mag) and
a big difference: the COP is allowed to have his gun unholstered going into a situation.
For us citizens, thats wreckless endangerment with a firearm.

You are also correct in stating it will be a close encounter. Aiming and sights are not as important as you drawing and shooting first.
I can also see the study done a while back stating pewrcentage of one shot kills left out one important parameter: length of time between the shot and death.

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Originally Posted by OPFOR

The simple fact is that most people who are shot survive the experience.

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^^^ This.