Rant: From NRA "Armed Citizens"

Rant: From NRA "Armed Citizens"

This is a discussion on Rant: From NRA "Armed Citizens" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I picked up some American Riflemans magazine which a friend was discarding. I liked reading thru the armed citizen columbs where the citizen triumps over ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array mastercapt's Avatar
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    Rant: From NRA "Armed Citizens"

    I picked up some American Riflemans magazine which a friend was discarding.
    I liked reading thru the armed citizen columbs where the citizen triumps over the BG. However:

    There are many articles where the citizen shot the BG, sometimes multiple times, and "The BG was arrested at the hospital where <he> sought medical for his wounds" Are all those citizens really bad shooters, or using "mouse guns, or what?
    Or am I reading into this too much?

    If all guns kill, there must be a lot of defective ones out there (Pun intended)
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastercapt View Post
    I picked up some American Riflemans magazine which a friend was discarding.
    I liked reading thru the armed citizen columbs where the citizen triumps over the BG. However:

    There are many articles where the citizen shot the BG, sometimes multiple times, and "The BG was arrested at the hospital where <he> sought medical for his wounds" Are all those citizens really bad shooters, or using "mouse guns, or what?
    Or am I reading into this too much?

    If all guns kill, there must be a lot of defective ones out there (Pun intended)
    This might make you feel better about it all. Maybe not. Shooting Voodoo :: Gunshot Wounds and You
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    Not everyone is trained by the US Tax Dollar as a Military or LEO (thank you Uncle Sam) to really inflict what Hollywood would consider to be a screen shot; when considering using lethal force.

    In the very average situation, the fact that a US Citizen can at least defend themselves from illegal force, and put the person in the hospital is just OK with me! Firearms equal that equasion for the weaker amungst us and is why the 2A exists!

    I personally have no desire to address an attacker/invader in my home who is of equal stature, let alone bigger, on equal grounds. It is 'my' home. I prefer to be 'loaded for bear'.

    The BG's will always have guns, knives or just intimidation (or mob) in that they do not follow the laws that you and I law abiding citizens have to. We will always be the victums. The current laws and system are designed that way. It's called liability......................... = $$$ We are expendable to the Politicians.

    If you really want to start a money riot....and want to protect the 2A..... Start demanting Tort/Legal reform for lawyers/attorneys who prey on you, the gun owner.
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    Could be "All of the Above." In a fight-or-flight situation, your adrenalin is spiking and you are scared out-of-your-mind. That's where your training and reflexes kick in. Most folks have never trained to be in a gunfight. They maybe go to the range a few times a year & poke holes in paper. So, their gun control reflects their training.
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    The simple fact is that most people who are shot survive the experience. Yes, of course, good hits to the thoracic cavity/central nervous system increase the potential for lethal wounds, but even those are by no means a guarantee. People can, and do, survive having holes poked in them. Expect it, but don't get riled up over it...I for one and glad my body can (likely) take that sort of beating.
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    Yes, better hits probably would have resulted from proper training. However, the real point is that these citizens were able to thwart an attack. The object should never be to kill your attacker. The goal should be to be able to survive, or better yet, avoid an attack. If a citizen is able to use a firearm to maintain his/her safety, then it is a successful outcome.

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    Don't get me wrong. I do not WANT to kill someone. I do not even WANT to shoot someone, but I will to protect the lives of my family and myself.

    Based on the article linked above, just incapacitating the BG should be enough.

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    Speaking as a medical professional, the human body is a very resilient thing, and medically speaking, a bullet is nothing compared to some of the things I've seen people survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mastercapt View Post
    I picked up some American Riflemans magazine which a friend was discarding.
    I liked reading thru the armed citizen columbs where the citizen triumps over the BG. However:

    There are many articles where the citizen shot the BG, sometimes multiple times, and "The BG was arrested at the hospital where <he> sought medical for his wounds" Are all those citizens really bad shooters, or using "mouse guns, or what?
    Or am I reading into this too much?

    If all guns kill, there must be a lot of defective ones out there (Pun intended)
    Many different things can happen. A friend of mine in the armed security bujsiness had to return fire at a shooter in a dark alley from about 25-35 yards away while being shot at. He shot 11 rounds of .40 S&W gold dots at the perp (I don't say suspect because the guy murdered a co-worker of my friend's while standing right next to him, then ran) and out of those 11 shots, 3 hit.
    1 graze
    1 shattered the guy's shoulder
    1 punctured and collapsed a lung

    The cops hauled the guy off, took him to the ER, he had surgery, and is now awating trial.

    Fact is with adrenaline dump, and surrounding conditions, and a number of other factors, even people who train and practice regularly (which both my friend and I do) still don't hit the target at range every single time for whatever reason under these circumstances. My friend was going on pure adrenaline, it was dark, it was around a crowd of club goers when it happened, he chased the guy several hundred yards, shot while moving/running, did one tactical reload, and so forth.. all factors in his accuracy when the time came to shoot.

    That's just one example of what can affect your skill versus how good you may or may not be at a well lit range with no stressors.

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    In a perfect world 1 shot would leave a hole you could drive a Mack truck through, and the BG would instantly drop, never to move again. Unfortunately the world isn't perfect and things seldom happen the way you hope for. Anytime a person can face a violent confrontation and survive it, that's a good outcome.
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    Years of TV and movies have conditioned most people to think a shot from any gun sends bad guys flying backwards like they had a rocket in their pants. What you are reading is more real than hollywood will ever strive to be. Like others have said when the SHTF accuracy goes out the window and the target moves different than the moving target at the range (if you're lucky enough to have one). Couple that with your adrenaline and that of the bad guy and things just don't make sense.
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    Distinguished Member Array onacoma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastercapt View Post
    If all guns kill, there must be a lot of defective ones out there (Pun intended)
    IF GUNS KILL; HOW DOES ANYONE MAKE IT OUT OF A GUN SHOW ALIVE!

    Lets look at LEO shooting, i.e., Inglewood, Mexifornia where officer fire 90 round and hit the guy 2 times! Or in Boom-Berg's town where the two officers fired 10 and 8 missed!

    THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET THAT WILL STOP A BG WITH ONE SHOT! If that was the case we'd only need a single shot pistol or rifle!


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    Please don't take this wrong but it is obvious that you've never been in a gun fight.

    There is ample explanations above for what happens in a shooting. One must remember that although one may be able to have 5 shot groups that make 1 ragged hole, the paper isn't shooting back, trying to rip your heart out, or slice you up like a Sunday roast. It is different when your life is on the line.

    Another point that should be made is if you shoot, you shoot to stop the threat. Ultimately, your shot or shots would hit a vital area and produce the kill you speak of, but as Gabe Suarez says "any hit you have on the BG is good for you and bad for him." If your hit causes him to turn and run, the threat is over and you could find yourself in deeper manure that the perp if you pursue and shoot a man running away. If an 84 year old granny has the muster to fight her way to a gun and put any kind of hit on the BG, I say she is OK in my book.

    Proper training will increase the possibility of the results you speak of but the majority of concealed carry permit holders, who carry a gun wherever they go, don't train for an encounter such as Armed Citizen much less gun owners who buy a gun, stick it in the nightstand and blow the dust off of it from time to time.

    May you never have to find out first hand what it is like to have to defend yourself with your firearm.
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    Shot placement matters. Handguns aren't terribly effective at causing immediate death, but as others have said they basically just put holes in the BG... small holes.

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