Precarious Situation at Work
This is a discussion on Precarious Situation at Work within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm not sure this is the right place for this story, but I'll post it here and the moderators can move it if they see ...
November 18th, 2012 01:44 AM
Precarious Situation at Work
I'm not sure this is the right place for this story, but I'll post it here and the moderators can move it if they see fit.
A little information first: My employer states in the company handbook that we are not allowed to have firearms at work on company property. I don't carry at work, but leave it in my vehicle. In my state, it is only illegal to posess a firearm where I work if they post the entrance to the property. They could fire me for it, but I'll take my chances with it being in my truck.
We recently hired a couple of young kids to work in our shop doing miscellaneous work that we haven't had time to do. I work for a small company and there are only about 5 guys on shift at one time (as few as one most shifts). So one of these new guys we hired was in the shop working when one of our senior employees pulled his truck in to the shop to check something on it. Junior employee and senoir employee then engage in a conversation about his truck and I'm not exactly sure where the conversation ended up going, but somewhere along the lines senior employee pulls a pistol out of his truck, pulls the slide back, and points it at junior employee. He then laughs like it's a joke and puts the pistol back in his truck. (Note: I did not witness this.) Junior employee comes to me about an hour later and tells me what happened. I'm utterly flabergasted. I know this particular senior employee is a moron, but I didn't think he was this dumb or crazy. I asked out shop mechanic if he saw anything and he said he only saw it out of the corner of his eye, but it definitely looked like he pointed a gun at him. My supervisor had already left for the day (along with crazy senior employee) so I told Junior employee to write down what had happened and we would discuss it first thing in the morning.
The next morning I walked Junior employee in to my supervisors office and had him tell his story to my supervisor and give him the hand written account of what happened. My supervisor then approached Senior employee with it and asked him what happend. Senior employee tells him that he didn't pull the slide back and that the pistol was still in its holster. He did admit to pointing it at Junior employee though. He said he was just joking around. Here we are about a week later and nothing has happened. Senior employee still works at the company and my supervisor pretty much pretends like nothing happened. I feel like maybe it's none of my business because he didn't actually point the gun at me, but then I get angry because it's guys like these that make responsible gun owners look bad. I don't know if I should consider taking this higher up the chain or if I should just drop it. Junior employee told me that he doesn't care what happens with it, but I still can't shake the feeling that I should be doing more about this. Any thoughts?
November 18th, 2012 01:44 AM
November 18th, 2012 01:57 AM
Hm. Seems a flat-out lie, right there. Pointed a holstered gun at someone? Can't imagine even a moron doing that.
Senior employee tells him that he didn't pull the slide back and that the pistol was still in its holster. He did admit to pointing it at Junior employee though.
He said he was just joking around.
From the standpoint of potential brewing violence, it seems you've got a colleague who's on the edge, if he's being witnessed threatening people in such ways. He apparently also has no compunction over lying to cover his butt. And the supervisor isn't doing anything about it, apparently also not discussing it with "higher ups." And then there's you, someone with a firearm on company property (in your parked vehicle), wondering whether to push the point.
Anyone who witnessed what occurred might consider drafting a memo to the company's senior folks about the situation. Might want to get H.R. involved. Ignoring it, if it indeed did occur, will almost certainly bolster the idiot's confidence that he can get away with whatever he chooses. But getting involved could have repercussions in a few ways ... from the idiot deciding to take matters beyond mere threats, to the company lashing out for its delays in dealing with it, to folks' jobs being at risk of termination. No fun, being in such situations.
IMO, the right course of action is guarding against the violent threats, and holding folks accountable for their actions. Whether that'll have ugly ramifications to some degree will depend on the idiot, the company's senior staff and their rationality (or lack of it).
Bottom line is, if what occurred did indeed occur, then it was criminal act, above and beyond any "company" issues. While only menacing at this point, apparently, it forebodes of a willingness on the part of the idiot to engage in deadly violence toward others. Bad juju, letting such things lie there unaddressed, IMO.
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the number of victims?
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November 18th, 2012 02:11 AM
Very good points. This colleague has threatened others with physical violence before this point and upper management knows about it. I'm sure my supervisor feels some sort of..... allegiance with this guy because they have worked together for 15 years, but I completely agree that if there are no ramifications it does instill confidence that he can get away with whatever he wants. He admitted himself having pointed the gun at the kid, so I have no doubts whether it happened.
November 18th, 2012 02:52 AM
First of all... You did your due diligence and the right thing to do. Even though you didn't witness the incident, one of the parties involved did come to you and presented his side of the story. Whether you're a supervisor or not, an employee came to you for advice about a potentially deadly situation. You handled it the best way possible by making him write a statement and had him present it to the supervisor. You went with him, and regardless of how much input you offered, you basically had him present it. That's the upstanding thing to do.
Now, all too often, small companies act the way yours did. They have rules and regulations and may even post them in a manual. But, they do not enforce the rules consistently. It happens all the time. And sometimes that can put a person in a tough situation. But it is, what it is.
Your conscious should be clean if something happens later on. You didn't become part of the problem by ignoring it when a junior employee came to you for help. Nor should you have any regrets if something does happen between those two later. However, from this point on, being involved any further can only end up being more of a hassle for you, and may even cause you significant grief.
At this point, I would take no further action. However, you should always keep an eye out for your own safety. Always keep an eye of caution or awareness towards the crazy employee. For no other reason than you just found out about his behavior and what he may be capable doing during a disagreement. Whenever you find out someone's proclivities or quirks, you just tuck that information away and file it in your mental "security database" as a "potential" threat in the future.
In essence, the crazy guy tipped his hand by revealing a side of himself which should give anyone pause. And the company showed their hand regarding how they dealt with a problem such as what transpired.
All you need to do from here on out is worry about yourself and stay out of everyone's way. And don't forget any of the valuable information you've gathered about these people.
Last edited by Bark'n; November 18th, 2012 at 03:59 AM.
"The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."
November 18th, 2012 03:03 AM
I was under the impression jokes are supposed to be funny. I fail to find any humor in pointing a firearm at somebody.
He did admit to pointing it at Junior employee though. He said he was just joking around.
Good ole boy system at work.
Here we are about a week later and nothing has happened.
I personally wouldn't feel comfortable working with somebody who acted in such an irresponsible manner nor would I feel comfortable with having others work with said individual. If I were you, I'd take it as high up as it needs to go to get something done. In my experiences coupled with the information you provided, Senior employee sounds not only like a ND waiting to happen, but also a ticking time bomb.
"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." -- Benjamin Franklin
November 18th, 2012 03:05 AM
This guy has escalated from verbally threatening to physically harm his coworkers to pointing guns at them. This guy is a danger to people around him. Now would be a good time to notify the proper legal authorities about the criminal acts that are regularly occurring at your work place before someone gets injured or killed. This is now a criminal matter and should be handled as such...it is no longer a work place issue to be handled/mishandled by your supervisor or anyone else at the company.
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November 18th, 2012 03:24 AM
My dilemna with taking this to the authorities is that he did not point the weapon at me nor did I even witness it. If he had pointed it at me I would've dialed the cops and had him arrested. There's nothing to discuss at that point. While the guy is (I believe) mentally unstable, I don't think he has a beef with Junior employee. I think he's just a moron. He's one of those guys that goes around bragging about how big his "package" is without anobody giving a damn. He has little big man syndrom big time and like a previous poster commented at current time my biggest worry is an ND waiting to happen, but he could potentially be a ticking time bomb.
November 18th, 2012 03:29 AM
I would document the incident with names, dates, and approx. time of day. Include your own actions in taking the issue to the boss. Keep your eyes open and expect trouble from this guy. If you decide to go to the police over this, I would go first to your boss and give him a chance to redeem himself by firing the offender. Then I think I would start carrying at work in case the guy decides to come back for revenge postal style.
November 18th, 2012 05:38 AM
November 18th, 2012 06:05 AM
It doesn't look like anything is going to happen, if they wanted to get rid of him, they could have used the "no firearms on company property reason".
Turn the election's in 2014 to a "2A Revolution". It will serve as a 1994 refresher not to "infringe" on our Second Amendment. We know who they are now.........SEND 'EM HOME. Our success in this will be proportional to how hard we work to make it happen.
November 18th, 2012 07:32 AM
I wouldn't want to work for a supervisor who turned his back to this kind of behavior. It's unacceptable. This idiot sounds like a loose cannon. I would go work somewhere else.
November 18th, 2012 07:40 AM
yea drop it just keep your guard up
Originally Posted by Miamieddie
November 18th, 2012 07:51 AM
Send yourself a certified letter describing your actions so you will have an official date of the occurrence. If anything stupid happens you have a little leverage to get the idjit ousted. Betcha 5 bucks Jrs report went in the round file.
Good luck bro.
"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds dearly the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
November 18th, 2012 08:01 AM
Originally Posted by velo99
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
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November 18th, 2012 08:20 AM
Tough situation to be in, for both you and the young guy. Not knowing the structure of the company you work for makes it difficult to give suggestions for course of action as well.
I'm going to venture a guess that upper management is not aware of the situation. My guess is that your supervisor never took it past his office.
You can either document it, for your own records, and move on. Or you can mention it to someone above your supervisor, and see what happens.
If you take it above your supervisors head, and the company is serious about their no guns policy, the moron will probably be fired, as well as the supervisor you told. Or if the young guy refuses to back you up on the accusation, you may very well find yourself out in the job market again.
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