November 19th, 2012 03:31 PM
That doesn't surprise me in the least. Does it seem someone is really digging to try to find that out those who can carry legally are criminals?
USN Submarine & UDT/SEAL Veteran
1SG, US Army Retired - Airborne Infantry All the Way!
Special Warfare Mentor
November 19th, 2012 05:05 PM
All of the antis seem to presume to know what we are thinking. An example would be going vigilante or developing a cop mentality. They cant understand our mindset because a sense of personal responsiblilty is out of their range of thought.
The antis in the LEO community are equally clueless as to the demarcation between citizens and LEO. As we all know LEO is law enforcement not protection from as yet uncommitted crimes. They show up write a report and go look for the BG AFTER the fact. By then it is too late and you have been robbed and assaulted. They will be glad to call an ambulance for you though. Hence the adage " A cop is to heavy to carry."
As CC holders we mostly know the difference between what we can do and not do. We gather in a thousand places just like this to discuss it, clarifying our questions by discussing with like minds.
Pahhh! It`s useless to vent about the subject. Carry on people. Keep your head up and your powder dry.
We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.
November 19th, 2012 07:43 PM
I should have made a note of where I saw the following statistic: CCW holders are 5 times less likely to commit any type of crime.
Although I have not vetted the authenticity of that, it resonates and I think it makes sense.
November 19th, 2012 07:58 PM
No. I think the number of crimes done by permit holders would increase, but the proportion of crime done by permit holders will remain low.
Originally Posted by suntzu
Why? Because of the word you used, "eligible."
First off the typical 21 year age cut off cuts out the young demographic of older teens who do commit many of the crimes of violence in our society.
Second, knowing that you have left a set of ten on record
is a bit of a deterrent to things like breaking and entering where prints could be your downfall.
Third, many who have been caught and convicted in the past of minor bad behavior become ineligible, thus making the pool of permit holders a pool of folks who tend to be more squeaky clean than the general population.
Fourth, for lots of folks, the thought of losing their permit is more scary than the
thought of a conviction for a minor offense. It doesn't make sense to me, but I think that is how the minds of many operate. Sort of, yeah, I can pay the fine and do a few days time, but dang, I sure don't want my license revoked. I won't beat the Mrs because....
Last edited by Hopyard; November 19th, 2012 at 08:01 PM.
Reason: edited for clarity
If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
November 20th, 2012 02:00 AM
BAD MATH ALERT
The author is dividing five year's worth of criminal acts by the total CC population. That's not valid.
Of the 51,078 permits that have been issued by the state since the law took effect in 2007, 44 permit holders have been charged with a crime while using a firearm through late October, according to records provided by the Kansas Attorney General’s Office.
That works out to one charge for every 1,161 permit holders, or 0.09 percent.
It's hard to come up with a truly valid percentage of CC permit holders who've gone bad, since the number of permits goes up each of those years, and we don't have a year by year tally of crimes.
Just for argument's sake, let's assume half those 44 occurred in just the past year. Divided by the current number of permits, that's about 0.04% of permit holders. Even better!
I think this report tracks well with the very detailed statistics available from Texas.
CC permit holders are a self selected law abiding bunch. That's what explains it.
The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.
I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.
November 20th, 2012 03:04 AM
Well, if I ever needed proof that guns don't cause crime, people do, there it is.
I don't think that Officer Palbickle needs any more ego stroking. Besides, he can't hear you with his highly trained nose so high in the air.
Originally Posted by 1MoreGoodGuy
Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
-Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)
November 20th, 2012 04:52 AM
I'm not surprised either but in regards to your other comment, I wouldn't be surprised about that either. Of course there's CC'ers out there who are involved in illegal behavior, so they may be digging to find those who are and use them to label us all as naughty gun owners.
Originally Posted by GH
"Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God." - Benjamin Franklin
"Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn." - C.S. Lewis
November 20th, 2012 03:50 PM
Overall it was a decent article, somewhat balanced in its coverage. However, it seemed impossible to completely keep the writer's (or publisher's) bias out of the mix, as the story spent more time talking about the problems with CC, even though there was no evidence to back it up. It just gave people's opinions that CC'ers are a danger to LE and civilians, but didn't cite any evidence at all. I say the evidence, even if you cook the numbers in a more "anti" slant, still show that CCW holders are much more law abiding and safe than the general population.
At least the article did point out that the facts are in our favor, even though it gave the general impression that CC is a bad and dangerous thing.
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