CC'ing when fellow employee is terrified of guns - what to do.

This is a discussion on CC'ing when fellow employee is terrified of guns - what to do. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glockman10mm I'm surprised at the number of people who would suggest a man, legally armed, in a place he owns, should downgrade ...

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Thread: CC'ing when fellow employee is terrified of guns - what to do.

  1. #46
    Member Array Crews's Avatar
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    CC'ing when fellow employee is terrified of guns - what to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I'm surprised at the number of people who would suggest a man, legally armed, in a place he owns, should downgrade his carry piece, probably chosen for the same reasons everyone here chooses their carry gun, to accommodate the unfounded, irrational fears, of a fruitcake employee!
    Agreed!

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  3. #47
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    If this gal was just a run-of-the-mill employee, then sure, she's free to find employment elsewhere, but it sounds like she's valuable to your business and replacing her might be trouble you'd like to avoid.

    My approach would comprise a few elements:

    - I'd start by letting her know you've been armed for a very long time, and she was never uncomfortable because she never knew... and the only thing that's changed is that now she's aware that you may be armed. Of course this is an appeal to logic and rational thought, which may not be a cure in this situation.

    - I would ask if she has the same level of discomfort around cops (including plain clothes LEOs) or uniformed, armed security personnel.

    - Since she never said anything until she saw your holster clips, I'd suggest altering your holster or your mode of dress so she doesn't see them any more. This isn't capitulation to a hoplophobe, it's making a modest adjustment to ameliorate the problem, like taking the pebble out of your shoe.

    - The last discussion I would have with her is that you value her as an employee, but you will continue to be armed on the job. You hope that that's not a deal breaker for her, but if it is, then it is her choice to vacate her position.

    Let us know how it works out.
    Smitty
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  4. #48
    Member Array 2slow04's Avatar
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    ^^ IMO it dependss on how worried he would be to lose a great employee that makes him money... yes you can replace people but they may not be the same status as the previous or will take time to get them up to par and when all of this is taking place he could be possibly losing money by losing business. yes it is ultamitaly his decision to carry what he wants, i would probably only downgrade if it is last resort and he feels like he needs to keep this employee to keep his business at the status it is at right now.
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  5. #49
    VIP Member Array Brad426's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    If this gal was just a run-of-the-mill employee, then sure, she's free to find employment elsewhere, but it sounds like she's valuable to your business and replacing her might be trouble you'd like to avoid.

    My approach would comprise a few elements:

    - I'd start by letting her know you've been armed for a very long time, and she was never uncomfortable because she never knew... and the only thing that's changed is that now she's aware that you may be armed. Of course this is an appeal to logic and rational thought, which may not be a cure in this situation.

    - I would ask if she has the same level of discomfort around cops (including plain clothes LEOs) or uniformed, armed security personnel.

    - Since she never said anything until she saw your holster clips, I'd suggest altering your holster or your mode of dress so she doesn't see them any more. This isn't capitulation to a hoplophobe, it's making a modest adjustment to ameliorate the problem, like taking the pebble out of your shoe.

    - The last discussion I would have with her is that you value her as an employee, but you will continue to be armed on the job. You hope that that's not a deal breaker for her, but if it is, then it is her choice to vacate her position.

    Let us know how it works out.
    This. Well, this or my fake robbery/ shootout scenario. They are 1 and 1A, really.
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  6. #50
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    Well, I tell you what. If it were me, I wouldn't make my choice to carry dependent on her fear. From here on out, she doesn't need to know that you're carrying, and if she asks, well this might be one of those times where it's ok to tell a little white lie. I definitely wouldn't quit carrying, though. Not even an option.
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  7. #51
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spec View Post
    I see a problem with everyone with this type of though process. HE IS THE OWNER!.... The boss makes the rules.. he can carry if he wants, he should not have to down grade to a pocket pistol because of an employee that hates guns. If he wanted to hang a shotgun over his door in his office that's his choice. This lady that works with him is not his main concern.

    His priorities are (1.) Staying safe during work (2.) Going home to his family every day. NOT PLEASING every employee's anti-American and their political views.

    Some of us on this forum don't support or shop or eat at business with anti-carry signs posted on the door. Why should this Boss make his business anti-carry? because it makes his employee uncomfortable? What would she do if I walked in open carrying?

    I'd ask her to have a personal conversation with her. It would go like this.
    boss: "so you don't want me to carry my gun? correct?"
    employee: "yes I would continue working here if you did not carry it at work"
    boss: "so if I should die then you will have no job and also will be responsible for telling my family why i'm dead. Can you handle that?"
    employee: "so I would have to explain to you family that because I was afraid of a piece of metal you are dead? Oh I don't know."
    Boss: "it goes both ways, I'd rather not have to explain to your family that you are kidnapped or dead because you are afraid of my metal tool that could have saved you."

    I'd say give her two Options, be a little more open minded as this is America and we have certain RIGHTS, and she has come in contact with other CCer's and will continue to do so the rest of her life without her knowledge. Or move to Canada because they fit her lifestyle better.

    I'm sorry if I sound a little harsh, but I have a low tolerance for those who don't agree to disagree and just leave me alone, they insist ignorance and fear should trump my Constitutional Rights as a Red Blooded American.

    Good Luck. Hope you are still carrying.
    I understand your point. But the OP made it very clear in his post that he does NOT want her to be uncomfortable. He made it clear that she is an asset to his business and that he wants her to continue working with/for him. He did NOT say that this conflict is a result of her being anti-American, or that this is a political stance on her part. Yes, he's the owner. Yes, he's the boss. I see nothing wrong with actually trying to offer him the advice he asked for. Of course he could have your "conversation" and tell her to move to Canada, but that doesn't seem to be the way he wants to go. I am ALL FOR exercising my rights as an American, and in this situation I would NOT stop carrying. I also wouldn't turn the situation into some argument about gun rights. If she is serious about her fear, and he is serious about wanting her to stay, they need to work it out amicably.
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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntzu View Post
    You are the boss.....make the decision. I would let her be and forget about the psycho babble. If she want to quit then that is what she wants....Me? I would sit her down and tell her very simply "this is who I am, I want you to stay but I won't change. Shake her hand and let her decide. Don't think the conversation woould laast more than 5 minutes.
    A small business owner who has had an employee for over 15 years, an employee who the owner feels in a trusted asset, and you wouldn't give her more than 5 minutes? "this is who I am, I want you to stay but I won't change" ...............OKAY.
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  9. #53
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad426 View Post
    This. Well, this or my fake robbery/ shootout scenario. They are 1 and 1A, really.
    Both great ideas with real merit.

  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kmagnuss View Post
    Exactly.

    Your business?
    Your rules?
    Her choice to get used to it or hit the road. The good news is you won't have to pay unemployment since she'll be leaving on her own accord.
    Sadly, this response is not accurate. If your employee leaves over her fear of firearms, the unemployment compensation board will undoubtedly find that you have the atmosphere in her workplace so unacceptable, that it is necessary for her to leave for her own safety/well being.

    Y'all may argue that if she leaves on her own accord, she is due no compensation, but I can assure you the Unemployment Board and/or any labor attorney will have a field day showing how she left because of a "hostile" environment. This is about the only way (this and harrassment) one can quit and still successfully collect unemployment benefits as well as compensation for wrongful maintainence of a hostile work environment.

    Good luck with your situation.

    BTW I am not a lawyer, but I have been involved in similar situations.
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  11. #55
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    As a fellow small business owner, I can appreciate the situation you're in. I often make generous concessions to keep my best guy happy. But I've never been in a situation where anybody felt scared or uncomfortable so thats unfamiliar territory. My suggestion would be to just ask her what you could do to make her feel more comfortable and hope her response isn't "stop bringing your gun to work". I just feel as though there's very much a happy medium to be found here. She needs the job just as much as you need her. Completely uprooting and starting at a new job after 15 years probably isn't an appealing idea to her. Meet in the middle. Good luck.

  12. #56
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    Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate all of them and thank each of you for taking them time to offer your suggestions and opinions.

    She is a good employee and a valued asset. In fact she's been there longer than me (20ish years vs. my 17). Part of the reason I bought the business from my predecessor 15 years ago was because she was willing to stay even with the change of ownership. Not sure I'd have taken the plunge if she had indicated she would seek other employment at that time.

    Anyway it's a lot to digest and obviously a challenging situation to deal with. I'll keep you all posted on what develops.

    Thanks again.

  13. #57
    Member Array d2jlking's Avatar
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    Good luck BillK01

  14. #58
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    Bill, have you been carrying the whole time you owned business or is it recently you started carrying?
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  15. #59
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    Respect a person's fears, sure, and certainly be cognizant of the mental minefield that the person has with respect to any attempts to change those beliefs.

    But at the end of the day, it's a business you're operating, not a charity ward. If it's your place of business and you see it appropriate to remain armed while folks are at work, then I'd say it behooves you to speak with your staff simply and clearly about the rationale and the policy. Your point isn't to change them from anti's to 2A advocates; far from it. Rather, you're just attempting to dispel irrational fears over a completely rational act, clearly stating the policy and basis for the act. On that basis, then, folks can determine for themselves if that's a place at which they want to continue to work. For those who are rigidly set in their beliefs, biases and/or fears, there might well be no getting through to them. But I'd say it's worth a try, particularly if you really value such people. There really isn't any more you can do.
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  16. #60
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    You say she would be hard to replace, but not impossible. You say she does an important job, but not one you can't cover yourself.


    If she's willing to leave a paying job after 15 years over another persons civil right, let her. Her loss, and her explanation on new applications, so be it.
    1MoreGoodGuy and Ghost1958 like this.

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