CC'ing when fellow employee is terrified of guns - what to do.

[BillK01]

Bill, have you been carrying the whole time you owned business or is it recently you started carrying?

It has been recently. Probably 2-3 months or so.

When my wife and I adopted both our boys, part of our separate home studies for each adoption was a guarantee of "no guns in the house" (that's a whole 'another thread topic I suppose!) at which point my only pistol at the time (Sig P225) went in the vault at my dad's house. I sort of got away from hunting and shooting during those first few years when they were babies simply due to lack of time.

They're now older and my 8 year old (and even my 5 year old to a lesser extent) has a real interest in shooting (he shoots my 15-22 like a champ!) and I've got more time to alot for hunting and shooting now (assuming I can keep my employee) and my interest is renewed. I grew up with guns so this paranoia is totally foreign to me.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[mulle46]

It has been recently. Probably 2-3 months or so.

When my wife and I adopted both our boys, part of our separate home studies for each adoption was a guarantee of "no guns in the house" (that's a whole 'another thread topic I suppose!) at which point my only pistol at the time (Sig P225) went in the vault at my dad's house. I sort of got away from hunting and shooting during those first few years when they were babies simply due to lack of time.

They're now older and my 8 year old (and even my 5 year old to a lesser extent) has a real interest in shooting (he shoots my 15-22 like a champ!) and I've got more time to alot for hunting and shooting now (assuming I can keep my employee) and my interest is renewed. I grew up with guns so this paranoia is totally foreign to me.

have you ever had a discussion with her about firearms before she made you carrying? Is there a personal reason she is scared?

[BillK01]

have you ever had a discussion with her about firearms before she made you carrying? Is there a personal reason she is scared?

She always knew I hunted and shot - she's known my dad and I have multiple guns. Before we adopted and it was just my wife and me I hunted a LOT and she ran the show while i was away (as she will be doing this coming Monday & Tuesday as rifle deer opens in PA). Heck she's even taken a few deer off my hands over the years as her and her family like venison better than we do.

Obviously me being gone hunting is different than me being at work cc'ing though. She's just a panicky/irrational type that doesn't like anything "weapon'like" whether it's a gun, bow, knife, hammer or chainsaw. :-)

[ccw9mm]

She's just a panicky/irrational type that doesn't like anything "weapon'like" whether it's a gun, bow, knife, hammer or chainsaw. :-)

... plastic bag, rope, screwdriver, heavy lamp, monkey wrench, steak knife ...

It's hard to see how a tool in the hands of a competent upstanding person equates to "threat," but that's what paranoiacs see. Hopefully you can keep her, if you/she value the work sufficiently to get past her irrationality on this. If not, then you'll find someone else to do the tasks.

[SIGguy229]

When my wife and I adopted both our boys, part of our separate home studies for each adoption was a guarantee of "no guns in the house" (that's a whole 'another thread topic I suppose!)

Yeah....how is this even enforceable?

[Spec]

I understand your point. But the OP made it very clear in his post that he does NOT want her to be uncomfortable. He made it clear that she is an asset to his business and that he wants her to continue working with/for him. He did NOT say that this conflict is a result of her being anti-American, or that this is a political stance on her part. Yes, he's the owner. Yes, he's the boss. I see nothing wrong with actually trying to offer him the advice he asked for. Of course he could have your "conversation" and tell her to move to Canada, but that doesn't seem to be the way he wants to go. I am ALL FOR exercising my rights as an American, and in this situation I would NOT stop carrying. I also wouldn't turn the situation into some argument about gun rights. If she is serious about her fear, and he is serious about wanting her to stay, they need to work it out amicably.

I'm not suggesting that he be rude about it. I'm bringing up the anti-American thing not solely on the "Gun Rights Issues" as you said, but as the everyone gets to have an opinion it is the USA and just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean I have to give up how I live my life. I do agree with you they should try to work it out. However this does require her to want to be rational which looks like she won't from the sounds of the OP.

Respect a person's fears, sure, and certainly be cognizant of the mental minefield that the person has with respect to any attempts to change those beliefs.

But at the end of the day, it's a business you're operating, not a charity ward. If it's your place of business and you see it appropriate to remain armed while folks are at work, then I'd say it behooves you to speak with your staff simply and clearly about the rationale and the policy. Your point isn't to change them from anti's to 2A advocates; far from it. Rather, you're just attempting to dispel irrational fears over a completely rational act, clearly stating the policy and basis for the act. On that basis, then, folks can determine for themselves if that's a place at which they want to continue to work. For those who are rigidly set in their beliefs, biases and/or fears, there might well be no getting through to them. But I'd say it's worth a try, particularly if you really value such people. There really isn't any more you can do.

That line is for you dj2lking, I think you misunderstood my poor way of explanation, whoops...... 100% Agreed^

You say she would be hard to replace, but not impossible. You say she does an important job, but not one you can't cover yourself.


If she's willing to leave a paying job after 15 years over another persons civil right, let her. Her loss, and her explanation on new applications, so be it.

NOTHING is impossible, they said George Washington could NEVER defeat the Greatest Military Force in the world, yet here we are.

... plastic bag, rope, screwdriver, heavy lamp, monkey wrench, steak knife ...

It's hard to see how a tool in the hands of a competent upstanding person equates to "threat," but that's what paranoiacs see. Hopefully you can keep her, if you/she value the work sufficiently to get past her irrationality on this. If not, then you'll find someone else to do the tasks.

Thank you for not continuing ccw9mm as this list is truely endless. This is the kind of stuff that people need to understand.

[Crowman]

You have a difficult situation on your hands. With that said and not to sound harsh, while I do not dispute her credentials and worth to your business she can be replaced. There are no jobs/positions where a person is not replaceable. Ask yourself this question(s) what if she quit or died on you.

[JDE101]

You are the boss, you set the rules. Period. Nobody is indespensible. Sorry, but she needs to get over her irrational fear or she needs to leave. You should not change your gun, your carry method, or anything just because SHE has an irrational fear!

I faced a similar situation in reverse a couple of years ago. A coworker bought the business where we had worked together for 4 years. I had carried the year before, and she did not even know it. Nobody did except for the previous owner, although a couple of guys suspected, because we had discussed how to obtain a CHL. Anyway, I brought up the subject with the new "boss". She did NOT say I couldn't carry at work, but it was clear from the discussion we had that she was not happy about it and that she had an irrational fear of guns! Her husband owned a couple of rifles, and she made him keep the guns and ammo on different floors in the house! A couple of weeks passed and the subject came up again, and it became clear no amount of rational discussion was going to change her mind. After I thought about it overnight, I went to her the next day and handed in my keys. I would not change my feelings about carrying at work, as I worked evenings by myself quite frequently and closed up. I knew she was not comfortable with me carrying, she had unfounded fears of liability issues, and she also told a couple of other employees who said they weren't comfortable either, so the only "right" thing for me to do was to quit. Now, this was only a seasonal job for 3 months each year, and I didn't have to have it to feed my family, but losing the income still had an impact!

As I see it, your employee has the obligation to conform to your rules--you do NOT need to change to accomodate her! If she has been there that long and needs the job, she'll put up with your carrying. If she is just looking for an excuse to quit, it really doesn't matter what you say. I personally would inform her that YOU are NOT going to change YOUR behavior in YOUR business! End of discussion. Just my .02.

[ccw9mm]

You are the boss, you set the rules. Period. Nobody is indespensible. Sorry, but she needs to get over her irrational fear or she needs to leave. You should not change your gun, your carry method, or anything just because SHE has an irrational fear!

^^ That's the crux of it, right there. All the rest are niceties, really.

[suntzu]

A small business owner who has had an employee for over 15 years, an employee who the owner feels in a trusted asset, and you wouldn't give her more than 5 minutes? "this is who I am, I want you to stay but I won't change" ...............OKAY.

Totally misunderstood. How much more do you want to talk about it with the lady? The point is no matter what I say would not change her mind if it is an irrational fear (phobia) unless you have some magic 30 minute solution to conquering fears.
If it is not an irrational fear and she has a philisophical issue with guns (passifisct) then she is not going to change her mind either.

I would not blow her off. I am saying what is a 1 hour discussion going to do? She is the one that has to learn to live with it. Anyway, you are not giving her an ultimatum or choice. She is the one that has forced that upon herself.

BTW: The fake robbery or whatever idea is about the dumbest thing I have heard. If she has a true phobia don't ya just think this might set her back a bit? If a person is afraid of heights you don't toss them on a ballon and send them up to 8000 feet the first time to overcome the fear.

Good grief.......goes back to my first post..........Forget all the pyscho babble...we are not shrinks and many times shrinks get it wrong and they are trained.

[GrandZJ]

It's your business. It's your gun. It's your safety. It's not hers. If she doesn't like it, and can't get over it, good bye and good riddance. There are 6 billion people in the world, I'm sure you can find a tolerant individual that can do the job just as well.

[wmhawth]

I would never be held hostage to her irrational fear because of her tenure and percieved status as key to my business. The graveyards are full of people we couldn't replace.
I'm not going to fire her but I'm not changing my practice either. I'll explain this to her. Next move is hers. That would be the extent of time spent on this matter. I don't have a lot of patience with these types and I tend to suspect that her being "terrified of guns" is more about a PC philosophy than about actual fear..

[d2jlking]

Totally misunderstood. How much more do you want to talk about it with the lady? The point is no matter what I say would not change her mind if it is an irrational fear (phobia) unless you have some magic 30 minute solution to conquering fears.
If it is not an irrational fear and she has a philisophical issue with guns (passifisct) then she is not going to change her mind either.

I would not blow her off. I am saying what is a 1 hour discussion going to do? She is the one that has to learn to live with it. Anyway, you are not giving her an ultimatum or choice. She is the one that has forced that upon herself.

BTW: The fake robbery or whatever idea is about the dumbest thing I have heard. If she has a true phobia don't ya just think this might set her back a bit? If a person is afraid of heights you don't toss them on a ballon and send them up to 8000 feet the first time to overcome the fear.

Good grief.......goes back to my first post..........Forget all the pyscho babble...we are not shrinks and many times shrinks get it wrong and they are trained.

Okay. I was just pointing out that it doesnt make sense to blow her off. You said you wouldnt. Got it. As for the fake robbery..... Seriously? I read that suggestion as sarcasm, my reply was ALSO sarcastic. Whatever.....perils of the internet, i suppose.

[Rock and Glock]

I would not terminate an otherwise great employee just due to an irrational fear of guns. Sadly..it is a common trait shared by many people.

Try hard to work it out. I'm certain that you will. Posting about it here is a good start.

Good employee (valuable 15 year type) versus "gone" employee? I think the comment above still succinctly summarizes my thoughts. Good/great/valuable/leave the keys with employes are difficult and expensive to find and train. This is not a "Craig's List" type search and I expect many business owners here recognize that. Having said that, we all recognize we should never allow employees to "hold up" owners with their status unfairly. The OP and his employee appear to have an outstanding and understanding relationship otherwise as illustrated by a successful 15 year history. That, in my opinion, cannot be terminated lightly and all avenues for successfully navigating this matter should be pursued with vigor.

I'm surprised at the number of people who would suggest a man, legally armed, in a place he owns, should downgrade his carry piece, probably chosen for the same reasons everyone here chooses their carry gun, to accommodate the unfounded, irrational fears, of a fruitcake employee!

While I respect the comments such as above, they appear to ignore the reality of finding employees in today's world. Sure, we may consider her an irrational fruitcake with unfounded fears, but she has been an asset at the business for 15 years. Not to make this OP digress into a discussion of employment longevity, but 15 year status is rare in todays world, and will become even more rare in the future I might guess. (See my above comments) There are folks around here that carry a steel 45 1911 in 45 ACP in the winter and drop to an LCP/LCR/mouse gun in the summer. This is not unlike such a change, but a lot more important in my opinion.

In fact, instead of an LCP, how about an LCR in 357 Mag in a pocket?

Hope it gets resolved in a fashion that helps your business and your livelihood while allowing you your personal flexibility.

A battle avoided is better than a battle lost, or in the words of Pogo or some other philosopher, Choose your battles wisely.

[d2jlking]

Well said!!!!!!