This is a discussion on CC'ing when fellow employee is terrified of guns - what to do. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This is the second time I read through this thread. I would tell her what she wants to here and carry under my clothing or ...
This is the second time I read through this thread. I would tell her what she wants to here and carry under my clothing or in a pocket. As long as she is happy what she doesn't know won't hurt her. It's kind of how some guys handle their Wife.
To the OP, I appreciate the fact that you didn't turn in your compassion in exchange for a carry permit. You are faced with situation where someone has a fear. I don't think she is trying to step on your 2a rights like some are implying. Fears are reality. You can't just discard them. Best of luck as you work through this.
Put one in a lock box in your desk perhaps?
I don't know, just trying to think of ideas...
That said, if she's threatening to leave unless she gets her way - from the outside it's easy to say 'see ya, thank you for your service'.
Well, my take on this is that "the tail (employee) is trying to wag the dog (boss)"..
I totally respect the fact that she is an integral part of your business...I respect the fact that she has the knowledge and the ability to run you business in your absence...I respect the fact that she has proven and earned your trust over her 15 years of employment...I respect the fact that YOU, as her boss, have feelings for her emotional well being and comfort while at work and it appears, to a great extent it carries over into her private life as well...It's difficult to be around someone for 15 years and not develop more than a boss/employee relationship.
With all the above, taken into consideration, I would at least sit down with her and go over each and every point that I brought out above.
Then it's time to transition into her feelings for you, as a boss and as a friend...Ask her direct and probing questions...Why have you stayed with me for 15 years, what is it that I do that encourages you to respect me as a boss, what is it that I do that causes you to respect me as an individual???
Now you've reenforced the bond between you..time to transition again..
Let her know that your business has survived and thrived, not only based her her dependability as an employee, but more importantly because of her sometimes spoken and unspoken input in regards to business decisions that you've made throughout the years. Emphasize however, it has been YOUR decisions in the end which has caused your busineess to flourish and be successful. Point out that she has never been the decideing factor in your decisions, the onus has always been on your shoulders.
Transition time again..
Now discusss the crazy social and economic environment that the world is in...Point out the businesses that have failed and are failing because of many of these factors. Let her know, that your business is of paramount importance in your life in order to support your family, and that you do understand that her position, and job is important in her economic survival as well...
Talk about the "evil" that is present in the world. Your concern as to how "evil" could affect your business, your life, the life of your family and also ultimately her life as well. Give her some examples of recent violence in the work neighborhood, your home neighborhood, her neighborhood.
Now, it's time to elaborate on WHY you feel the necessity of having a firearm(s) in your home, in your business, on your person, etc. Explain to her, that a firearm is only a tool, like the timeclock, or the calculator, or the computer. It is a tool to meet the perceived needs of yourself and your family. Let her know that your decisions are not made lightly. That you are comfortable with the tools you have chosen, your ability to operate them, and the safety necessary to prevent the wrongful use of your tools..
Invite her to your home to sit down with you and your wife. Let you both show her the tools. Let her touch the tools, learn about the tools, and offer all and anything that you can do, to help her overcome her fear or at least understand the tools themselves.
Then, let her know, that in the end, YOUR choice and YOUR choice alone is the determining factor in regards to your firearms. You hope she understands and will accept your decisions just like she's accepted your numerous business decisions over the years.
BUT, make it plain, your decision will NOT change...
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
It sounds like you carry IWB is she saw your belt clips. There are holster makers out there that have holsters that clip to your pants and are hidden by your belt. Or you could just wear your shirt untucked. I would suggest going into work for a few days, if the dress code allows, with your shirt untucked or wearing it "baggy" without your gun; this way she gets use to the new look and if she asks if you're carrying, you can show her that you're not. Once she gets use to the look and you've found a comfortable IWB holster, start carrying again and NEVER revile the fact you are. Or you could wear the belt over the clips that attach the holster to your pants to hide them better. Just my 2 cents. Hope you find a solution that makes everyone comfortable.
I would open carry a Smith & Wesson .500 revolver in the office if I had this problem.
The First Sgt has a good plan. He's a bit more tactful than I would be. I keep thinking that the lady, over the course of 15 years may have been given the impression that she is indispensible to the organization. It might be time to dispel that notion and introduce her to the reality that although she holds a special place as an employee she is not impossible to replace.
Frankly, her tirade seems a bit childish to me.
Last edited by wmhawth; November 20th, 2012 at 03:28 PM. Reason: Spelling
I like First Sgt's plan of attack. Sounds like someone who has a lot of experience with conflict resolution.
Thanks again for the replies. It's a tough situation as she's more than just an employee really.
Heck she's babysat our kids for us on occassion - my wife and her have gone to some various shows together - her husband has done contracting work for me. It's almost like she's a sister - in fact more family than a lot of my blood really which I suppose is pretty common when you spend 8-10 hours a day with someone 5 days a week for 15+ years and you're both about the same age.
I ordered a Remora for my Shield today and will see how that works. I did carry today - via my briefcase and into my desk once I got here and back on me (with my coat) when I had to step out or go somewhere. I cc in an N82 Tactical Pro mainly because I felt it WAS a pretty darned good concealer compared to my Crossbreed Super Tuck and Old Faithful - but that darn clip is a dead giveaway if anyone has even the most basic knowledge of CC holsters. I suppose another option would be a new belt (I have an A & G now) with the velcro on the inside and the optional velcro clip arrangement. We'll see how the Remora works before I invest in another belt.
If it continues to be an issue for her we'll just have to sit down and hash things out and she'll have to decide if her employment is more important to her than not agreeing with my decision to cc and whether she can live with it. I'll have to deal with whatever fallout becomes of it - if any.
I spoke at length to my wife about it - and she agrees with me that it's my right, my building and my business and I shouldn't have to bow down to anyone - it's not like I'm running a methlab in the back for crying out loud. While my wife isn't a gun nut she did raise a valid argument if you will. She has shot my Shield, Sig and 15-22 (doesn't enjoy shooting the Glock being a .40) - but she commented on our last range trip when we took the boys shooting a couple weeks ago - the guys next to us at the range had several full auto guns. She said it sort of freaked her out a little being right next to guys she didn't know from Adam shooting full auto weapons and how for all she knew they could "just turn and blow us all away in a matter of seconds" - and she - like me grew up around guns. It did resonate a little with me that if she was slightly uncomfortable in that situation how someone with no real firearms experience could be totally irrational around any gun in the hands of anyone.
Thanks again for all the very insightful and helpful posts - they've been helpful, it means a lot to me and I appreciate them!
Hey Bill, as a long time user of the smart carry holster (about 12 years) with a S&W 4516 I can say that I don't even notice the rig. It is comfortable while standing or sitting even in the car. I wear pleated dockers and there is no way on earth anyone is going to notice short of physical contact.
The only drawback to the smart carry is that I can't draw while seated in the car so I have a second pistol in the center console of my car.