This is a discussion on CC'ing when fellow employee is terrified of guns - what to do. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In my limited experience people like this are sometimes more concerned about seeing the gun than it's existence. Just doing a better job of concealment ...
In my limited experience people like this are sometimes more concerned about seeing the gun than it's existence. Just doing a better job of concealment might well be an acceptable compromise.
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There are some responses here that border on being a bit harsh. I would take a slightly different approach. While you are the boss and the final decision is yours, you should have all the pertinent data available. Why does she fear guns? Could it be that she was a victim of a violent crime that involved a gun at some time in her past? Was a family member of hers a victim? Was a friend of hers a victim? I would want to know her reasoning before I set up the potential loss of a valued employee. Maybe it is simply some missunderstanding she has or something that she needs help with to get past. If she has worked for you for 15 years I think she has become a little more than an employee, she has become a friend. In my book a friend tries to help a friend get over some problem they are having. In the end you make the call either way but please make the call with as much information as you can get.
Bill when I carry on the job I hide my CBST belt clips with a cell phone holder and then clip my phone into it. I truly think if you look at your options changing you dress code is easier then buying holster after holster. I have Three holsters that's it. they all have their time and place.
NRA Certified Rifle/Pistol Instructor
Accuracy ALWAYS WINS! So carry what you can hit with.
If you find yourself in a fair fight your tactics stink.
Almost everyone has at least one unreasonable fear. If you think about it, probably you do, as well. I don't know all the 'phobias, but fear of heights or fear of enclosed places, just to name a couple. People with these fears often know that they are not reasonable fears, but they also know that they are VERY real. To tell someone to "just get over it!" does NOT work. If you can find a way to help her overcome her fear, great, but don't count on it.
If it were me, I would drop the subject, and stop ccw'ing around her for a while. Hopefully, within a short time, she'll ask if you're armed, and you can truthfully say "No." Then, after a while, start carrying again, but make sure it's CONCEALED! In this case, what she doesn't know won't hurt her, but if you lie to her, you will break the trust that's a big part of making her a good employee.
as my wife would say "build a bridge and get over it, or dig a hole and get under it."
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. ~Burke, Edmund
Proud owner of a G35. And yes I carry it concealed.
so has a verdict been reached? I don't own a business (and the one I work for is very gun friendly, one of the guys brought in his AR to show off the other day) but I do work at one, and what it boils down to is: its the boss/owner's way, or the highway. every now and then the mgmt does something I don't agree with, BUT I don't expect them to change anything because I don't like it. they sign the checks, I don't...bottom line.
if she doesn't like it, sorry, I would tell her to either live with it or move on....ok, I'd be more diplomatic than that I guess, but still.......
Quando Omni Flunkus Moratati
I don't know if there's any room for a "facts of life" talk in there --
We're in a country and a state that doesn't infringe on the rights of people to defend themselves. Half the people that work here might be carrying and you and I don't know it. Half the people you know might be carrying and you don't know it. Half the people anywhere you work might be carrying and you wouldn't know it. I was carrying and you didn't know it.
Guns aren't something to be afraid of -- Bad people are. Bad people with guns all the more. I feel a responsibility - A duty - to protect myself, my family, even my employees, in any way I can. The reason I carry legally is because bad guys carry illegally. I train, I practice, I mentally prepare for something that I hope I never have to do. I don't ever want to be put in the situation where I need to put that preparation into action. But if that time came and someone I cared about and was responsible for was hurt because I wasn't prepared, I couldn't live with myself.
Now I'm really sorry that my carrying a sidearm makes you uncomfortable and I certainly never intended that. Personally I wish you hadn't seen it because we woud've avoided this whole thing, but we're past that now. I don't want to jeopardize our friendship for something as (try not to use the word "trivial" but perhaps "inconsequential" or something along those lines) as this. You're important to this company, you're important to me - and we need to figure out a way to make this work that can make both of us comfortable.
With that, you've explained her "ignorance" without actually calling her "ignorant" -- You've explained your rights and reasons while validating her feelings and without backing down. You let her know that you don't want to leave (while subtly informing her that it might not be any better anywhere else anyway) and opened the door to resolve the situation (although it certainly doesn't lead to one on its own).
GRANTED -- I'm from Illinois so I'll likely never need to have this discussion with an employee. But I had a disturbingly similar discussion with my wife not too many moons ago.
And we're picking out her first revolver next month.
NRA Life / Endowment UT, FL, IL
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
--Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney
Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."
Folks, I would like to draw a comparison here to my situation.
My boss says no weapons at work. Leaving alone for the moment the amount of injuries one could inflict with normal office supplies... it's HIS business and HIS rules. So I considered the risk to my family from a bad guy (realistically, very low here in the hills) versus the risk to my family from me being out of work (significant - we like to pay our bills and to, well, eat). I choose to follow the rules at work for the SAME reason I choose to carry: it's better risk management for my family.
The original poster has his own business and a valuable employee. His business, and hence his family, would take a hit if she left. How big a hit? For how long? He didn't say. He gave no stories of attacks or zombies across the street, so all he appears to have is a theoretical threat to safety (which I accept as legit, of course). Soooo.... he's now faced with the same decision I described above, albeit with lots more nuances.
Please consider allowing him the freedom to choose as he sees fits best the principle of protecting his family. It may be that his decision would be to show her the door. Or offer counseling. Or to stop carrying for a time. Or altogether. Or change a holster or carry a pocket gun instead. But the overriding principle of 'what is best for my family's protection' actually COULD produce an unarmed scenario. And he's the only one who is able to make this call: he's the captain of his family and it's his neck or his glory depending on how it turns out.
Not to say I particularly disagree with any of the various courses of action suggested above. Each is rooted in the author putting himself in the boss's shoes. We are doing so with a limited amount of details - is the business in Podunk or in Detroit, for instance. So each of us imagines ourselves in the role, and each of us brings all sorts of baggage into the mental picture. Some, who would show her the door right away, may have faced for-reals bad guys in the past: they would likely have little tolerance of the employee. Others have experienced a business failure because of hasty decisions: they might caution a more measured response. Each bit of advice above may indeed be the best possible course of action in dealing with the scenario in the commenter's head as he considered the situation: I don't want to throw rocks. But we're not all imagining the same scenario, and none of us knows how well it fits the original reality. Maybe the original poster will choose to follow your someone else's advice, and it may indeed be the best decision for HIS situation. Give the captain room to work.
Your point however is taken in that all our situations may be different due to geography, personal history etc.CC'ing when fellow employee is terrified of guns - what to do.
So how do I best handle this situation.
In my view the lady has a very nice man for a boss. Along with employment he has given her friendship. He places a lot of value on her as an employee and a friend. Now, as a surprise, she has dropped a bomb on him amounting to nothing less than an ultimatum, putting him in a bad position, and with, in my opinion, a childish and frivolous excuse.
Under the same circumstances I couldn't be more charitable than to let her know in the kindest possible way that I'm changing nothing and that continued employment is hers keep or to end as she chooses. In my own experience no one is indispensible.