CCP Denied? Don't Give Up
Hopefully my experience will encourage others who have been denied a LTC for one reason or another to NOT give up.
As I am not a professional writer, and brevity will not do justice to this story, I apologize in advance if the reading gets dry; but facts are important.
I hesitated posting this, but after some thought it seemed a good idea as well as the fact that my LTC issues are now fully resolved with a CCP now in my hand.
Photos attached will provide some level of credibility as some I realize don't believe anything they might read in posts.
I blacked out my identity and other officials involved in this case.
Here is the story of my denial and eventual victory at my appeal... and what I learned:
I did the normal steps in attaining a LTC here in Indiana.
The process was supposed to only take maybe one to two weeks to receive the license since I opted for electronic finger printing. (Extra cost)
Thirty days later I was notified via normal mail service my application had been denied for (3) reasons. (See attached photo)
If the photo is not large enough, here were the reasons.
1) "Does not have a conviction for resisting law enforcement... IC 35-44-3-3
2) "Does not make a false statement..." IC 35-47-1-7
3) "...disapproved by your local police authority..."
Seems the chances of getting a LTC after all that is pretty bleak?
I wonder how many people would throw up their hands and quit?
What I learned so far:
1) Applications can get (Flagged) automatically w/o human intervention.
2) Most lawyers will appeal on your behalf if you can afford it. I was quoted $2,500
3) Legal representation is usually not needed if you can PROVE errors in the reasons for denial.
4) The process of the appeal will be lengthy. From appeal to LTC issue was 6 months! Primarily due to application backlogs in my state.
WHY I APPEALED:
1) The resisting law enforcement conviction was over (30) years old. Indiana law specifically states the conviction must be within (5) years of license application.
2) False statement was a innocent omission on my part. It was a (15) yr old non-violent misdemeanor.
3) "disapproved by local law enforcement authority" was automatic due to number (2)
Indiana requires a response to appeal within (30) days. Don't delay in filing and send it certified mail!
I appealed and my appeal date was set.
I spoke with the "Agency Counsel" via phone prior to my appeal date to seek advice.
This person is not your friend. This is the person who acts as prosecutor to keep you from getting a license.
As we spoke, this person indicated the appeal proceedures are very informal.
DON'T BELIEVE IT!
This was far from informal. Everything is recorded. At the appeal is a Administrative Law Judge, the Agency Counsel and one or two assistants to the Agency Counsel.
I was sworn in.
I can now see why some might want to secure professional representation. I was asked questions that looked deeply into my past. I can see any mis-wording in my answers could cause the denial being upheld.
My appearance at the appeal was less than friendly though I expected that. As the appeal procedure concluded; I felt certain the denial would not be over turned.
The state had clearly made some mistakes concerning my case. I do not hold anyone in particular responsible other than the system itself.
It is interesting to note how I tried to avoid the appeal process:
1) A l letter from my local PD essentially endorsing issuing a permit to me. (see photo)
2) I researched ALL prior charges, including the one from over 30 years ago.
3) I sent all this to the Licensing Division via certified mail.
It was my hope that proving (2) of the denial reasons were not germane and the "false statement" was completely accidental would secure my LTC.
I was wrong.
In the letter sent to me indicating the date & time of my appeal; (2) two of the reasons had disappeared with just "making a false statement" remaining. (see photo)
Proof positive the state does research or verify the facts of a individuals criminal background. To be fair; it is not their job to do so.
Well; at least I was making headway. :image035:
If you feel you have a strong case, file for your appeal.
Expect the process to be long with many hours of research on your part. It is not the state's responsibility to do this research for you; quite the contrary. Had I not proved my case with hard research backed with notarized documents, I seriously doubt I would have prevailed. My/your word is not good enough. You can sit there at the appeal and tell the judge your long sad story. W/o PROOF & legal precedent I had secured and had admitted into evidence, I feel certain the state would not have reversed it's initial decision.
If you can afford legal representation; I highly recommend it. While I may not be Einstein, I am able to think quickly on my feet and know how to research. I was armed with documented facts and a knowledge of the specific legal statutes pertaining to gun permit laws. All should be so equipped before appearing at the appeal.
Indiana is pretty much a "gun friendly" state. I was actually amazed when I was notified my initial denial was overturned.
None of the parties involved in hearing my case acted unfairly. Keep in my mind though, they will NOT assist you in any way either.
I understand the state's responsibility in issuing a LTC.
If you don't have a felony record, domestic violence etc..etc and you feel your criminal background should not preclude you from a LTC; then by all means; appeal the decision.
Be prepared for a lot of work and travel time in assembling documents, appearing at the appeal etc....
Was it all worth it to me?
YOU BET IT WAS!
The system worked this time..at least in Indiana.
My faith in the system has been partially restored.Attachment 64650Attachment 64651Attachment 64652
If I left anything out or if there are questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
I believe I'm getting ready to go through this as well
Thanks for taking the time for all of this. I believe that I am getting ready to go through this myself. I am in Indianapolis as well and had gone through the process of applying for lifetime carry permit. After doing the electronic fingerprinting (make the process faster..haha) and going downtown and completing the process I waited for 18 weeks with no response. So I decided to call to see what was going on with my application.
Originally Posted by RightsEroding
It took several days to find someone to talk to as the number on their website is only a recording stating that they are very busy.
I finally spoke with a police officer and he looked into it. Good thing I called. If there is a problem with your application he said "it just gets thrown into 'the bin' and they come back to them whenever they get around to it".
So long story short I had forgotten about an arrest nearly 40 years ago. The police officer said I needed to get the dissertation (sp?) stating the outcome. I contacted the police department in the town (where I was born and raised) where this happened and they said I would need to contact the Prosecutor's office for that information although they did find a document in their files about this incident.
I contacted the Prosecutor's office and was told that they didn't have any records from that long ago. So I called the police department back and they were kind enough to send me what they had. I spoke with the same Indiana State Police officer and he seemed to understand all of this and said that was ok, to just send the document I was given. So I emailed him this document.
10 weeks later I had not heard back so I emailed him again. He responded that I needed to call him to discuss this. When I called him it seemed like we had to start all over as nothing appeared to have been done in the last 10 weeks. He said he would have to make some calls to see what was going on and he would call me back shortly. He did call me back in about 15 minutes and told me that I was being denied becaused I had falsified the application because I answer 'NO' to the question if I had been charged with a felony and/or a misdemeanor. I said it wasn't a felony, I was a kid, made a stupid mistake by taking a car battery and was fined $5 for doing so, hardly a felony. He responded 'All thefts are a felony'.
WHAT?? That sure doesn't seem right. He continued by saying they would send out paperwork in the next few days and that I would have to appear to explain why I had lied on my application. (A lie is an intentional act to decieve, this was an honest mistake - again nearly 40 years ago!)
So here I am waiting for the letter to arrive. I've been searching around, I didn't know if I needed a lawyer or what. Then I read your posting and it has helped alot. Thanks very much! Maybe I can sleep tonight
Oh and by the way. Over the years I have purchased a few handguns and rifles, always passed the background checks. I also applied for a carry permit many years ago (12 -15) and passed that background check and was issue a carry permit at that time. If I remember correctly I renewed it once and then let it lapse. But then again, I didn't remember the arrest 40 years ago so I could be wrong about the renewal.... :)