Gun Show Double Standard

This is a discussion on Gun Show Double Standard within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Went to one yesterday. Was able to get a much better deal than online on ammo, and that is pretty much the only reason I ...

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Thread: Gun Show Double Standard

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array BigJon10125's Avatar
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    Went to one yesterday. Was able to get a much better deal than online on ammo, and that is pretty much the only reason I go. Also like to have all the options in one (huge) location to check it all out. There were no posted signs, but they did zip tie those with guns. It is however illegal to CC in this state at a gun show so it was left in the car.

    As others stated, I saw lots of idiots doing stuff that could potentially get someone killed if a loaded weapon was involved, on purpose or not.
    BigJon


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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Alex_C's Avatar
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    If someone has gone through the necessary training and legalities in order to carry a concealed firearm (at least here in MI) then I don't see why they shouldn't be able to carry at a gun show. It is generally not a "pistol free zone" as defined by CPL law.

    Keep it holstered and concealed and there's no problem. Just like anywhere else you'll go with your concealed firearm.

    If you're going there to buy a holster/accessory, you unload your gun before going in. If you pass a holster/accessory vendor and wish to impulse buy, go outside and unload in your vehicle, then re-enter. Gun shows I've been to stamp your hand to avoid having to pay more than once for entry.

    Draw a loaded gun inside the show and expect the same response you'd have if you drawn a loaded gun anywhere else...

    Of course, it's the venue's right to disallow concealed carry if they wish and I respect that, but I must confess I do see it as a bit of a double-standard as far as gun rights go.

    As far as guns you're intending to trade, sell, buy, etc. then yes, keep them unloaded and actions open. They're not your defensive firearm.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array sensei2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    I've seen too many stupid things done at gun shows, by people who had no clue, as well as people who should have known better. Since there is no way to know the level of competence of the people entering the show, safest solution is no loaded weapons allowed. Every gun show I've been to, that included vendors.

    "NO LOADED WEAPONS" is very much the policy at my local gun shows that are run by the Washington Arms Collectors. all weapons must have their actions tied upon entering the show. furthermore, WAC also prohibits loaded MAGAZINES and loaded SPEEDLOADERS. this policy applies to patrons and vendors alike.

    even so, i read that a vendor blew a hole in the ceiling with his "unloaded" gun, just a few months ago.

    i am VERY much in favor of this policy. too many guns, too many people handling these guns, and no real "safe direction" to point them.



    besides, just one incident where someone is shot and perhaps killed at a show would give the anti-gun crowd another excuse to try and prohibit gun shows completely.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    I agree that the proverbial idiot who pulls his loaded gun out, says, "Hey look what I've got...", BANG, is a problem. In this regard I can understand the no weapons stance. I am also somewhat disappointed by it because it amounts to the same tactic as used by the antis of legislation bans for "safety", that most here acknowledge don't work at best and create crime empowerment zones at worse. The same old reasons are given: lack of education, experience, responsibility, etc. Is this not at least part of what the whole permit process is supposed to be about? Are we saying that the permit process is inadequate? For that matter, this whole argument could be extended to almost any situation. We have to ban weapons because: there are lots of people, some people may be drinking, emotions may run high, we trust their level of training, fill in your excuse of choice. How then do we also reconcile this against the position of 'we should do away with permits because the 2nd-A is the only permit I need'?

    The net result is that while I do see the idiot being a problem, I don't see legislated disarmament as being a desirable solution.
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  6. #20
    Member Array BradL's Avatar
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    I was recently at a show with my weapon shopping for a holster. I brought mine in a zippered case with the empty mag in the gun. The police officer at the door put the zip tie through the chamber and out the muzzle and fasened it around the slide. Didn't even take the mag out to see if it was loaded. The first holster vendor I came to clipped the zip tie off so I could fit the gun. I walked around with it that way for the rest of the time I was at the show.

    I understand the need for rules at a gun show. I saw a number of idoits there that I wouldn't trust with a potato gun. However if you're going to make rules, then they should be enforced.
    I don't want to be a hero, but I'm sure not going to be a victim.

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  7. #21
    Ex Member Array pir8fan's Avatar
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    Every gun show I've ever attended in NC has done this. We are not allowed to carry to any event that charges admission so it's to be expected here.

  8. #22
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    We have a choice

    Don't go or go and comply with their rules.

    I choose to go to the shows, I understand the rules. But if I did not feel safe or had an issue I would not attend the show.

    The important lesson I have learned here on this forum is we all have to make decisions. Hope you all make some good ones today!

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    The net result is that while I do see the idiot being a problem, I don't see legislated disarmament as being a desirable solution.
    Nor do I see legislation being any solution. But venue-specific controls required by the venue operator are perfectly within the right of the operator (or owner) to implement. Similar to any resident's own home.

    Not that I agree with all the mess of gun shows, including the restrictions. Which is why I go elsewhere. Win/win, in that sense: they get to keep their little venue with its restrictions, and I get to go where I'm unrestricted.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
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  10. #24
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Nor do I see legislation being any solution. But venue-specific controls required by the venue operator are perfectly within the right of the operator (or owner) to implement. Similar to any resident's own home.
    I meant the term legislation as hyperbole, though it would apply in the strict context too. I am also not disputing their "right" to try to implement whatever rules they want. I am disagreeing with the logic of a disarmament rule being the answer. I am also dismayed to see this group appear to be readily willing to accept such a restriction as being a satisfactory solution.
    Alex_C likes this.

  11. #25
    Member Array Archie's Avatar
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    There is a difference

    No, the rationale for no loaded guns at a gun show are NOT the same as for normal concealed carry.

    A gun show is a location where guns are shown, handled and passed back and forth among relative strangers. Concealed carry in the normal world does not expose or even inform others of the weapon involved. Except under the most extreme conditions, a concealed firearm is not displayed.
    wmhawth likes this.
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  12. #26
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    I meant the term legislation as hyperbole, though it would apply in the strict context too. I am also not disputing their "right" to try to implement whatever rules they want. I am disagreeing with the logic of a disarmament rule being the answer. I am also dismayed to see this group appear to be readily willing to accept such a restriction as being a satisfactory solution.
    "This group" isn't. Few are advocating disarmament. Few are disputing a property owner/operator's right to set terms for attendees. IMO, unless speaking of the statutes in some states that prohibit lawful carry at such venues, disallowing whatever (ie loaded weapons or weapons at all, food/beverages [as with theaters], etc) remains simply a property right.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie View Post
    No, the rationale for no loaded guns at a gun show are NOT the same as for normal concealed carry.

    A gun show is a location where guns are shown, handled and passed back and forth among relative strangers. Concealed carry in the normal world does not expose or even inform others of the weapon involved. Except under the most extreme conditions, a concealed firearm is not displayed.
    A concealed firearm, for defensive purposes, should not be displayed at a gun show either. Though it may be the "right" of the venue owner and it may be the law in certain locales, to say that all people need to be disarmed of their defensive, not for display, firearms because other firearms are being displayed is not a proper response in my opinion. It is akin to many of the other justifications used for disarmament. To say that this situation is different is to invite the slippery slope because undoubtedly a rational excuse could be made of how many situations are "different."
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  14. #28
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noway2 View Post
    It is akin to many of the other justifications used for disarmament. To say that this situation is different is to invite the slippery slope because undoubtedly a rational excuse could be made of how many situations are "different."
    There's no way around it but to eviscerate the basic property rights folks have, for controlling who comes onto property, if carrying's going to be held to trump them.

    Short of fully blasting any and all firearms-related laws off the books and fully enshrining the 2A in its proper place (which ain't gonna happen anytime soon, IMO), there isn't any way I can see to acknowledge both the right of the property owner to control the property and still acknowledge the right of the carrier to be armed (just not present on that property, if desiring to remain armed). Can you?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #29
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  16. #30
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    ^^ Hm, I wonder how many guns have fired at that cement-floored unloading "station."
    BigJon10125 likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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