November 27th, 2012 02:00 PM
Have a few people at a gun store or guns how muzzle sweep or purposely aim at you and then tell us why loaded guns at shows are a good idea. Sure most are safe , but idiots get in too.
The show sponsors are trying to keep a safe environment. My LGS has a sign requiring all guns brought in for service/sale to be unloaded. CCW holder exempt unless trying holsters. While I appreciate this I would understand if they didn't want anyone armed ( due to liability).
"In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson
Nemo Me Impune Lacesset
November 27th, 2012 02:02 PM
This summer we had a vendor at a Dixie Gun Show shoot himself in the leg taking a supposedly unloaded gun out of the display case. It happened about 10 minutes before the show opened. The scary thing is that that this was the second day of the show. The gun had been loaded all day long on the first day of the show!
Originally Posted by dukalmighty
November 27th, 2012 02:19 PM
At our gun shows in NC, which my son and I love to attend, we can whip our guns around all we want, try out holsters and other accessories, etc. and nobody says a word, That's because they're zip-tied at the door. Makes more sense than asking you to leave 'em behind. And no magazines although you could smuggle one. That's because they also sell knives .. knife, zip-tie, get my drift?
Thing is, you could buy a mag, ammo, and a knife (metal detector at door) and shoot the place up.
November 27th, 2012 03:41 PM
My question is, is it legal to ignore the line if you are concealing? At the show I go to in WA they usually have a LEO at the door assisting/observing the ziptie process. They don't do any metal detectors or anything, just an honor system. If I will not be exposing/removing my gun from it's concealed position in the holster, do I have an obligation still to stand in line and be rendered defenseless?
November 28th, 2012 11:08 AM
Yes, at least in states where notification via signs doesn't have the force of law in terms of criminal trespass.
Originally Posted by BigStick
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
November 28th, 2012 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by BigStick
firstly, i agree, that IF YOUR GUN NEVER LEAVES ITS HOLSTER, that you would be safe. nevertheless, if loaded, holstered, and un-zip-tied guns were allowed by policy, at some point, SOMEONE would draw their's for one reason or another, and eventually we'd have an ND.
in Washington State, ad hoc "no guns" prohibitions do not have the force of law, therefore you are 'legal' to ignore them.
if it's a WAC show, someone should ask you, "any guns?", as you enter. are you willing to lie and say, "no"?
if you're caught, you will be expelled and your membership stripped. is it worth it? only you can say.
i prefer to abide by their rules. if i enter the show with a gun, it will be tied.
November 28th, 2012 12:09 PM
Originally Posted by noway2
noway2: your entire post was a thoughtful presentation of the conflicts inherent in this situation.
i have excerpted one section to comment on.
my primary firearms trainer once told my class that she only feels the need to wear her bulletproof vest WHEN SHE'S TRAINING POLICE OFFICERS, not when she teaches non-LEOs. it seems as far as she is concerned, that as a group, LEOs are less safe gun handlers than are 'civilians'.
so, 'training' is not necessarily a panacea against ND's.
November 28th, 2012 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by archer51
Yeah there are people at gun shows handling the weapons with no knowledge of gun safety. I saw a vendor showing a guy and his wife/girlfriend a handgun and the woman took the gun from hubby and pointed it down the isle into the crowd and pulled the trigger! She had know idea how to check the weapon to see if it was clear and know idea if it was clear.
I am not crazy about having to have my gun zipped tied but I live with it. Sometimes I'll forgo the hassle and lock the gun in my gun safe in my truck rather than having to unload and reload.
November 28th, 2012 12:22 PM
Personally, I don't go to many guns shows because, as you note, there usually are no great deals. Sometimes it is fun to just mill around and look at the goods on a rainy afternoon.
That said, I would not set foot in the place if every schmo walking in was toting a loaded weapon. For reasons already described, it's a disaster waiting to happen.
As to the "rules", the safety issue aside, the companies that provide insurance for these venues virtually always require all weapons (other than LE) to be checked at the door. In regards to your comment about "force of law", the property owner always has the perogotive to prohibit loaded weapons on private property, so don't push that argument as you'll likely be asked to leave the venue.
"Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
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Law Enforcement Tactical Surgeon
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