NE vehicle transport question

This is a discussion on NE vehicle transport question within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I posted a while back that I'm still waiting on the appeal of my CCW permit to crawl its way through the legal process. In ...

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Thread: NE vehicle transport question

  1. #1
    New Member Array xdhusker's Avatar
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    NE vehicle transport question

    I posted a while back that I'm still waiting on the appeal of my CCW permit to crawl its way through the legal process. In the mean time I still have a desire to protect myself to the fullest extent that I'm legally allowed.
    I carry at my home and I plan to start carrying at my business (I own the business). I'm trying to figure out the easiest way to transport my handgun between my office and home on a daily basis. I also occasionally have appointments during the day outside the office so I need to have a legal place to stow my handgun when I cannot carry it concealed.

    OK, here's my plan:
    I have an SUV so I don't have a separate trunk compartment so I want to get a nano vault with a combo lock for under my seat. When I get in my vehicle to leave home or the office I will unload my handgun and place the loaded magazine and empty gun both in the nano vault.
    In the event of a life threatening situation in my vehicle I could retrieve my gun, albeit very slowly.

    Now here's where I have a question/concern. Inside Omaha city limits it is illegal to possess a concealable firearm anywhere in a vehicle if it isn't registered with the city, so I went down to do that tonight. After registering my gun I asked the officer if it was legal to store my gun in a locked compartment anywhere inside my vehicle because it was an SUV. He said no, i had to store it in the very back of the SUV or else it was illegal and considered a CCW. I didn't push him on it, but my reading of the law in Nebraska doesn't say anything of the sort, in fact it's pretty absent of anything related to vehicle transport of firearms.
    The officer also said we are a must notify state so I have to notify the officer if I have a firearm in the vehicle. This was new to me as well and my understanding was I only have to notify if I have a CCW, which I don't.

    So, my apologies for the long post, but I would really appreciate any advice you guys would have. My thought is I'm on solid legal ground transporting my unloaded gun in a nano vault locked under my seat, but I want to be 100% legal so that's why I'm asking.

    Thanks in advance.

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Here's the pertinent part of Omaha Municipal Code

    that this section shall not apply to the following persons:
    .
    .
    .
    (4) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry an unloaded concealable firearm inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.

    (5) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry or transport an unloaded concealable firearm in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the concealable firearm will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.
    I think the cop is wrong. It may be what he wants the law to be, but he don't make the law.
    As to notification, again, he's blowing smoke, IMO.

    Omaha - used to be a town I liked. Not so much any more.
    ~~~~~
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    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    Here's the pertinent part of Omaha Municipal Code



    I think the cop is wrong. It may be what he wants the law to be, but he don't make the law.
    As to notification, again, he's blowing smoke, IMO.

    Omaha - used to be a town I liked. Not so much any more.
    Actually I believe the way the ordinance reads is that even if the gun is in a locked container it has to be in a place that is not readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle.If it's under your seat you have access to the firearm where you are seated,to be legal it would have to be locked up and in the rear most portion of the vehicle that would require you to have to get out of the vehicle to retrieve it
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  5. #4
    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    Where do you get that?
    ~~~~~
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

  6. #5
    New Member Array xdhusker's Avatar
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    This is where I get confused too. In one part of the municipal code it reads:

    Sec. 20-192. - Carrying concealed weapon

    It shall be unlawful for any person except an authorized law enforcement officer purposely or knowingly to carry a weapon concealed on or about his person. On or after January 1, 2007, any person possessing a lawful permit issued by the State of Nebraska authorizing the carrying of concealed handguns shall be permitted to carry such a concealed handgun in the City of Omaha as permitted by state law.

    (a) In any violation where the concealed weapon is a concealable firearm, any sentence shall include a minimum jail sentence of 30 days.
    (b) Any person convicted under this section where the concealed weapon is not a concealed firearm shall be punished as provided in section 1-10
    That section uses the language on or about your person. In my case I believe under my seat could be considered "on or about" because it is technically within reach.
    Then you have the section that was quoted earlier:

    Sec. 20-206. - Carrying weapons

    (a) As provided in section 20-192, the carrying of a concealed weapon is expressly forbidden.
    (b) In all other cases, it shall be unlawful for a person to go armed with a loaded concealable firearm of any kind or to knowingly carry or transport a concealable firearm in a motor vehicle, provided, however, that this section shall not apply to the following persons:
    (1) Persons lawfully entitled to possess a firearm while upon the premises where he or she regularly resides or is regularly employed.
    (2) Peace officers.
    (3) Members of the armed forces of the United States, the National Guard, or the Reserve Officer Training Corps when on duty or training.
    (4) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry an unloaded concealable firearm inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person.
    (5) Persons who for any lawful purpose carry or transport an unloaded concealable firearm in a vehicle inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person or inside a cargo or luggage compartment where the concealable firearm will not be readily accessible to any person riding in the vehicle or common carrier.
    (6) Persons in or upon a shooting range or the regular business premises of a federally and city licensed firearms dealer.
    (7) Persons engaged in a generally recognized course of instruction in the use of firearms, such as hunter safety instructions or instruction for the purpose of obtaining an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207
    (8) Persons who have verified to the city that they are entitled to a waiver of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207(k).
    (9) Persons who have obtained and display an identification card showing satisfactory completion of the firearm training program as set forth in section 20-207
    (10) Persons possessing a valid permit to carry a concealed firearm under Nebraska Law.
    This section seems pretty clear that it's ok to carry an unloaded concealable firearm inside a closed fastened container which is exactly what I want to do.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    20-192 is addressing concealed WEAPONS - that's more than firearms. It provides the exclusion for those with a permit to carry a concealed FIREARM.

    20-206 deals with firearms and their carriage. (4) is about carrying the packaged firearm in general - while walking down Dodge Street, for instance. (5) deals with carrying the firearm in your vehicle. If in the passenger compartment, it must be packaged same as if you were walking. If in the trunk, out of ready reach, it does not need to be in a separate packaging, just unloaded.

    IANAL, YMMV
    ~~~~~
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

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    New Member Array xdhusker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    20-192 is addressing concealed WEAPONS - that's more than firearms. It provides the exclusion for those with a permit to carry a concealed FIREARM.

    20-206 deals with firearms and their carriage. (4) is about carrying the packaged firearm in general - while walking down Dodge Street, for instance. (5) deals with carrying the firearm in your vehicle. If in the passenger compartment, it must be packaged same as if you were walking. If in the trunk, out of ready reach, it does not need to be in a separate packaging, just unloaded.

    IANAL, YMMV
    So it sounds like it comes down to the definition of "readily accessible" in my case.
    Is a locked gun safe under my seat considered (legally speaking) "readily accessible"?

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    Senior Member Array sdprof's Avatar
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    inside a closed and fastened container or securely wrapped package which is too large to be concealed on the person
    You could have the package on your lap as you drive. So under you seat is surely OK.

    The "readily accessible" clause refers to storage in the trunk
    ~~~~~
    The only common sense gun legislation was written about 224 years ago.

    I carry always not because I go places trouble is likely, but because trouble has a habit of not staying in its assigned zone.

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    Member Array .45acpguy's Avatar
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    All of that tedious back and forth about exactly what the law states for the Municipality of Omaha, etc. is just too much. It appears that your population has a few too many anti-gun voters and a few too few pro 2nd Amendment voters.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array Haywood's Avatar
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    You better check your State Laws. I don't know about your State but, here in Ohio you can't have a loaded Mag or Speed Loader in your car without a Permit to Carry. They have to be empty even if they are not within reach.

  12. #11
    New Member Array xdhusker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
    You better check your State Laws. I don't know about your State but, here in Ohio you can't have a loaded Mag or Speed Loader in your car without a Permit to Carry. They have to be empty even if they are not within reach.
    Ironically the state laws are pretty much silent on the issue so I'm pretty sure there's no laws I would be breaking at the state level. It's the wannabe California municipality of Omaha I have to worry about. :(

  13. #12
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    A few issues...

    Quote Originally Posted by xdhusker View Post
    Ironically the state laws are pretty much silent on the issue so I'm pretty sure there's no laws I would be breaking at the state level. It's the wannabe California municipality of Omaha I have to worry about. :(
    Ok, a few things. One, (without a CCW permit) the only time you'll be able to lock the gun up in the front passenger area of your vehicle is if you are securing it in the vehicle and are leaving it there. If you are going to be in the vehicle with the gun, whether it is in a locked case or not, it must be in the passenger area of the vehicle. For you or someone else who is driving a Jeep or Ford Explorer type vehicle, that is as all the way against the tailgate. Nebraska law does specifically mention that you need to secure it somewhere other than the console or glove box as a way of demonstrating that it can't be in the cab. Its not so much "readily accessible" as it is "within reach or lunge" that you should be thinking about. Nebraska law doesn't even require that the case locks. The laws are so old as to include wrapped with paper and tied with a string as an acceptable case.

    Second, Nebraska law does require you to tell the officer you have a concealed firearm in the vehicle ONLY IF you have a CCW permit. No permit, no requirement to tell the police you have the firearm. To take that a step farther by way of a Constitutional argument, lets say you have the pistol in the car with you and you believe that it IS NOT legal. They can not pass a law that would require you to tell the officer you had an illegal gun in the vehicle because they can not compel you to testify against yourself, 5th amendment. By this exact same logic, felons do not have to register their firearms. On a side note, because LB 817 passed in 2010 and went into effect in June 2010, once you have your CCW permit, you will no longer have to register any of your pistols with Omaha Police ever again.

    Lastly, I am a concealed carry permit instructor in Nebraska. If you are having trouble understanding the laws or are still having trouble appealing the denial of your permit, email me. I would be more than happy to help. My father and I were the first certified in the state and we are by far the best class in Nebraska. I am always happy to help.

    Sincerely,
    -Patrick Smith Jr.
    -Gun Safe Academy
    -Omaha, NE

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array NECCdude's Avatar
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    It's too bad that Nebraska is a "duty to inform of firearm presence" state. Seems like a violation of the 5th Amendment to me. But, I guess states rights allows them to require this. I've been trying to determine a tactful way of writing to my state legislator about changing the law.

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    Senior Member Array NECCdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdprof View Post
    As to notification, again, he's blowing smoke, IMO.
    No, he isn't. Nebraska is a "duty to inform" state. See handgunlaw.us. I don't remember which state statute it is and I'm too lazy to go look it up again.

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    A duty to inform is not a violation of the 5th amendment because you are not incriminating yourself since you are informing them that you are doing something legal.

    And the posters have been correct. A gun in a locked box under your seat is considered accessible. Stupid, but it is whatvit is.

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