SE Wisconsin Members: Bayshore Mall's poorly-placed anti-firearm signs

SE Wisconsin Members: Bayshore Mall's poorly-placed anti-firearm signs

This is a discussion on SE Wisconsin Members: Bayshore Mall's poorly-placed anti-firearm signs within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was at Bayshore last night. When I go into any business I always look to see if they ban firearms or not no matter ...

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  1. #1
    Ex Member Array AdBro's Avatar
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    SE Wisconsin Members: Bayshore Mall's poorly-placed anti-firearm signs

    I was at Bayshore last night. When I go into any business I always look to see if they ban firearms or not no matter if I'm carrying at the time because I'm always curious.

    I entered through the Boston Store entrance on the east side of the mall; there was no sign--I was surprised and impressed as I figured there would be.

    I entered the mall through where Boston Store connects with the mall and eventually walked out of the mall doors onto the west side to go to another clothing shop. I eventually walked back to the mall doors on the west side and saw they DO have a no-firearms sign. I thought maybe there was a sign that I missed as you walk from Boston Store into the mall, but I looked and there WASN'T! I wasn't carrying, but if I was I would be upset that, because of their poorly placed signage, I would be breaking the rules because of it. Has anyone noticed this here or at other places?


  2. #2
    Member Array ZacMan1987's Avatar
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    I am not yo on your state's law, but in TN, this posting would not carry the weight of law and therefore you couldn't be held legally responsible for carrying unless you refused to leave when asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacMan1987 View Post
    I am not yo on your state's law, but in TN, this posting would not carry the weight of law and therefore you couldn't be held legally responsible for carrying unless you refused to leave when asked.
    I know. It's the same concept here. I'm just saying how obnoxious it is.

  4. #4
    Member Array Rxdoc's Avatar
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    I was at Bayshore not long ago, and looked for signs too. I was really happy that someone got the message about "mall carry". Anyway, I carried everywhere I went there for over 3 hours. As I was leaving, there it was, on a utility pole at the entrance to the parking areas. My wife got a real "Yuk" out of it. Not posted properly, do not have to conform is my answer.Oh, BTW, won't go back, live a hour's drive away, but if I do......
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    Ex Member Array AdBro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rxdoc View Post
    I was at Bayshore not long ago, and looked for signs too. I was really happy that someone got the message about "mall carry". Anyway, I carried everywhere I went there for over 3 hours. As I was leaving, there it was, on a utility pole at the entrance to the parking areas. My wife got a real "Yuk" out of it. Not posted properly, do not have to conform is my answer.Oh, BTW, won't go back, live a hour's drive away, but if I do......
    Oh really? So they have it posted outside on polls? What a joke.

  6. #6
    Member Array 02R1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdBro View Post
    I know. It's the same concept here. I'm just saying how obnoxious it is.
    according to the handgun laws in WI, signs to carry the force of the law... go read it.

  7. #7
    Member Array Drgnfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    according to the handgun laws in WI, signs to carry the force of the law... go read it.
    That's what I thought as well.... but I've heard from people online that they don't lol. And of course I'm in NY and they have that grey area...



    Direct from Handgunlaw.us


    "We are unable to determine if “No Gun” signs have the force of law in New York. Until we get more information Handgunlaw.us believes you should treat every “No Gun” sign on any private business as having the force of law."

  8. #8
    Ex Member Array Edward7's Avatar
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    I just, for lack of a better word, respect the sign law or no law. Id expect the same respect in my home or business. I dont see it often, and I live in the most anti gun state of them all.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    according to the handgun laws in WI, signs to carry the force of the law... go read it.
    IF they follow the rules:


    943.13 (2)
    (bm) 1. In this paragraph, "sign" means a sign that states a restriction imposed under subd. 2. That is at least 5 inches by 7 inches.
    Note: In order to give notice under the above provisions, other than the provisions relating to single family residences, an owner or occupant must post a sign notifying persons of the restriction. If an owner or occupant of a building or part of a building is permitted to post a sign to notify that carrying of firearms is prohibited in the building or part of the building, the owner or occupant must post a sign that is located in a prominent place near all the entrances of the part of the building to which the restriction applies and it must be posted so that any individual entering the building must be reasonably expected to see the sign. If grounds of a building or land may be posted, as described above, the owner or occupant must post a sign that is located in a prominent place near all probable access points to the grounds or land to which the restriction applies and any individual entering the grounds or land can be reasonably expected to see the sign. Finally, organizers of a special event may post the special event by posting a sign that is located in a prominent place near all of the entrances to the special event and any individual attending the special even can be reasonably expected to see the sign. For all of these provisions, the sign must be at least five inches by seven inches
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  10. #10
    Member Array Mjr_Fail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZacMan1987 View Post
    I am not yo on your state's law, but in TN, this posting would not carry the weight of law and therefore you couldn't be held legally responsible for carrying unless you refused to leave when asked.
    I was told the same thing in CCW class but to me it's a gray area in WI also. I was told they carry force of law only if you remain on the premises after asked to leave. Handgunlaw.us is a good source of info but I'm not sure all of it is gospel. At any rate I obey the signs and avoid them in the future.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Array cn262's Avatar
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    This is from document LRB-12-WB-3:

    "Enforcement and Penalties. If a person carries a firearm, or a particular type of firearm, in a place where firearms have been prohibited at the discretion of the person in charge of a building or property, he or she may be cited by a law enforcement officer for violating the trespassing law, s. 943.13, which is a Class B forfeiture with a penalty not to exceed $1,000. The appropriate enforcement procedure is for the person in charge to notify local law enforcement authorities."


    The way it seems to read is that if you carry in an area you could be detained while the authorities are called. But if you look into the trespassing law (below), it seems to state that they need to request that you leave (although the language seems somewhat ambiguous since proper signage could be the warning by the owner not to enter). What they told us during our CCL course was that the owner needed to ask you to leave, and if you refused then you could be cited for trespassing. My personal thought is that it's better to avoid places like that since there are plenty of other places that would be happy to have you spend money there.

    "943.13(1m)(c)2.

    2. While carrying a firearm, enters or remains in any part of a nonresidential building, grounds of a nonresidential building, or land that the actor does not own or occupy after the owner of the building, grounds, or land, if that part of the building, grounds, or land has not been leased to another person, or the occupant of that part of the building, grounds, or land has notified the actor not to enter or remain in that part of the building, grounds, or land while carrying a firearm or with that type of firearm. This subdivision does not apply to a part of a building, grounds, or land occupied by the state or by a local governmental unit, to a privately or publicly owned building on the grounds of a university or college, or to the grounds of or land owned or occupied by a university or college, or, if the firearm is in a vehicle driven or parked in the parking facility, to any part of a building, grounds, or land used as a parking facility."

    Source: Wisconsin Laws 943.13 - Trespass to land :: Lawserver

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 02R1 View Post
    according to the handgun laws in WI, signs to carry the force of the law... go read it.
    I'm sorry. I misread what he wrote. You're right and I knew that.

  13. #13
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    I'm simply commenting on the fact that not all main entrances are labeled here like they should be

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array sioux565's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdBro View Post
    I'm simply commenting on the fact that not all main entrances are labeled here like they should be
    What about Southridge and Mayfair? I haven't been to either 3 since I started carrying. I've noticed some restaurants in the MKE area having signs that are not the required dimensions.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by sioux565 View Post
    What about Southridge and Mayfair? I haven't been to either 3 since I started carrying. I've noticed some restaurants in the MKE area having signs that are not the required dimensions.
    I'm pretty sure Mayfair doesn't allow it. I have not been to Southridge in years though.

    What are the dimensions needed? On the DOJ's FAQ it seems to just say visible signs at the entrances of a building.

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