Immigrants With Guns...

This is a discussion on Immigrants With Guns... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; These days, there is a lot of confusion over the word 'immigrant'. We are all, in one form or another, 'immigrants' to this great country. ...

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Thread: Immigrants With Guns...

  1. #16
    Member Array DaveT's Avatar
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    These days, there is a lot of confusion over the word 'immigrant'.

    We are all, in one form or another, 'immigrants' to this great country. Some are new, others have seen families live the American dream for generations.

    The key distinction is the word 'illegal'. Lots of illegal immigrants these days seem to be making noise and demanding rights.... all that nonsence is being publicized by the media big time.

    'Illegal' is ILLEGAL, and no rights or benefits should be afforded. After all, the word 'illegal' does mean AGAINST THE LAW !! They should be charged as criminals, arrested and prosecuted through our legal system as any other criminal would be.

    Legal immigrants should be afforded the same rights and privileges that all American citizens enjoy. They went through the process to be here legally, and should not be denied any part of the life they are seeking.

    What's striking to me is that a lot of legal immigrants know our Constitution and laws better than a lot of American citizens do. The previous posts by MarkM are proof positive that he is a student of the laws of the country he has chosen for his new home and life. He probably knows a lot more than the majority of our students in our schools today !

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  3. #17
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    Respectfully....
    Since 9/11 I don't want people walking around with guns in the U.S.A. unless they have taken this oath.

    "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

    Just my personal opinion so I'll agree to disagree with you and the constitution if need be.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  4. #18
    Member Array MarkM's Avatar
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    QKShooter, it is good we can agree to disagree so politely, that is one of the reasons I enjoy visiting Combatcarry compared to some other forums.

    Times like the past 5 years make me glad that the Founding Fathers had the foresight to protect the rights of all people legally in the US, without the protection of the Constitution we could easily have seen a diminishing of personal rights much worse than the Patriot Act.

    The funny thing is that I (and other legal permanent residents) have had to go through substantially more in the way of suitability/background checks than citizens going to buy a gun: eligibility checks, medical checks, background checks, education verification, fingerprints, photographs, interviews, years of waiting, considerable expense etc.

    Why should a 21 year old gangbanger citizen without a felony conviction have more right to a gun than I do?

    (By the way: I will take that oath as soon as the Government lets me, and I would have taken it before now if the citizenship process were quicker)
    First rule of a gunfight: Carry a gun

  5. #19
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELCruisr View Post
    Actually I know several legal immigrants who are very staunch 2nd ammendment supporters. They came from places where their guns were taken just before their "presidents" suddenly became "presidents for life". One I know had asked me if I had guns. When I said yes he vehemently stated that I should never, ever allow anyone to take it without a fight. If you don't, he said, it will mean the end of your country and maybe your life. We need more like him!

    +1

    The problem is, lately, there seem to be people from troubled countries all over the world, who have been trodden on and tortured and abused by their governments, and many of them still, for some reason, fail to see the utility -- the paramount importance -- of a population that has the power to oppose tyranny through the use of arms. They espouse a "the people should not have guns because that's how violence happens" philosophy, even when it is clear that being defenseless has led their people to suffer genocide. For cripes sake, that famous holocaust survivor guy, I forgot his name, even took an anti-gun stance in something I read. (Was it Elie Wiesel?) People who should know better still are anti-gun. It's troubling. People like your friend are too few-and-far-between. :(

  6. #20
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    That's Also Cool By Me.

    "The funny thing is that I (and other legal permanent residents) have had to go through substantially more in the way of suitability/background checks than citizens going to buy a gun: eligibility checks, medical checks, background checks, education verification, fingerprints, photographs, interviews, years of waiting, considerable expense etc."

    That's also OK with me then if that's required.

    Doggone...I learn something new here every day.
    Liberty Over Tyranny Μολὼν λαβέ

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkM View Post
    The funny thing is that I (and other legal permanent residents) have had to go through substantially more in the way of suitability/background checks than citizens going to buy a gun: eligibility checks, medical checks, background checks, education verification, fingerprints, photographs, interviews, years of waiting, considerable expense etc.

    Why should a 21 year old gangbanger citizen without a felony conviction have more right to a gun than I do?

    I do sincerely regret when good people, like you, have to jump through hoops to get access to your rights like that, but in answer to your question, even a 21 year old gangbanger citizen is entitled to rights, if he as never had a conviction or other prohibiting factor. That's just the way the system works. We really don't want people being arbitrarily or subjectively denied their rights without due process, do we? Unfortunately, we have to wait til he screws up in order to deny the gangbanger the right to carry. That's the way it works.

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array INTJ's Avatar
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    Yep
    "Beware of the man who only owns one gun. He probably knows how to use it."

  9. #23
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    anyone legally in this country and allow by current law should have the right to defend themselves.
    "In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." Thomas Jefferson


    Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

  10. #24
    Member Array TheHun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    anyone legally in this country and allow by current law should have the right to defend themselves.

    Very well said Rocky.

  11. #25
    JD
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    Well, I know of atleast a half dozen guys I served with in the Marines that weren't yet citizens, if you can fight and die for this country before your even a sworn citizen you should DEFINATELY be able to own/carry a firearm.

  12. #26
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    Reciprocity should be a consideration

    For those that choose to enter this county Legally, and work here legally, yet not seek citizenship, I feel their right to carry in this country should be subject to reciprocity with their home country. How many Canadians live and work here legally, and can carry Concealed Weapons? How many US citizens traveling or living in Canada legally can carry? Same for the UK, Japan, Mexico, etc.

    When it comes down to it, a legal resident, whether US citizen or not, can carry or obtain a permit almost anywhere it is required to do so.

    This same courtesy is not extended to US citizens that hold valid Carry Permits here, when they travel to other countries. If we are denied the privelege in Canada, then no Canadians can Carry here unless they want to become Citizens, and so forth.
    ""If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying, I either won't need more or, more won't help me.""

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkM View Post
    The funny thing is that I (and other legal permanent residents) have had to go through substantially more in the way of suitability/background checks (edit) to get into the country and obtain the right to buy a gun (end edit) than citizens going to buy a gun: eligibility checks, medical checks, background checks, education verification, fingerprints, photographs, interviews, years of waiting, considerable expense etc.
    To clarify: this is what I had to go through to become a permanent resident, once all these checks are out of the way and you become a legal permanent resident you can purchase guns with the same backgrounds checks as a citizen - the only differences are that you have to prove 3 months residency in that state, provide your "alien" number, and are more likely to get a "delayed" NICS result.

    (thankfully) I don't have to go through all those checks every time I want to buy a gun (unless I move back to New Jersey lol ), just the once to get the green card.
    First rule of a gunfight: Carry a gun

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrioticRick View Post
    As long as they're legal and nationalized, I have no problem with it. Our rights are for our citizens.
    Naturalized, not nationalized, and that's not necessary - legal doesn't require naturalization, although legal is a prerequisite for naturalization :)

  15. #29
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeephipwr View Post
    Everyone has a right to defend themselves.
    Felons don't. Illegal immigrants don't...

  16. #30
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Right after they take the Oath they should be A-OK to own firearms.
    So you don't believe lawful Permanent Residents ("Green Card" holders) should be permitted weapons?

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