Immigrants With Guns... - Page 3

Immigrants With Guns...

This is a discussion on Immigrants With Guns... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by QKShooter Respectfully.... Since 9/11 I don't want people walking around with guns in the U.S.A. unless they have taken this oath. "I ...

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Thread: Immigrants With Guns...

  1. #31
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Respectfully....
    Since 9/11 I don't want people walking around with guns in the U.S.A. unless they have taken this oath.

    "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

    Just my personal opinion so I'll agree to disagree with you and the constitution if need be.

    Uh huh... Nicely echoing the arguments of all the anti-gun folks who say that the Second Amendment doesn't need to apply to, oh, y'know, folks like YOU.

    Are you aware of the amount of time, effort and expense it takes to become a Permanet Resident? Some of us even come from countries that you call "allies"...

    It's an all or nothing deal - you either support the Constitution, or you don't. No buffet option here.


  2. #32
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    That's Also Cool By Me.

    "The funny thing is that I (and other legal permanent residents) have had to go through substantially more in the way of suitability/background checks than citizens going to buy a gun: eligibility checks, medical checks, background checks, education verification, fingerprints, photographs, interviews, years of waiting, considerable expense etc."

    That's also OK with me then if that's required.

    Doggone...I learn something new here every day.
    It might be entertaining - albeit off topic - for the "greencarders" here to compare the complete process, end-to-end times, and such, that there processes took. NOT the amount of money involved though :)

    I'm "pretty vehemently opposed" to illegal immigration; I always was, but I got a lot more so after going through the process to get to where I am now (Tampa).

  3. #33
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdlv4_0 View Post
    Well, I know of atleast a half dozen guys I served with in the Marines that weren't yet citizens, if you can fight and die for this country before your even a sworn citizen you should DEFINATELY be able to own/carry a firearm.
    IIRC, current law allows non-citizens, serving in the US Armed Forces, to become (or is it apply?) citizens 24-hours after the military swearing in.

    Compare and contrast "Joe Civilian", when it's five years if they remain single, or three years if they marry a Citizen.

    (Three Years, 10 months and 20 days and counting.... )

  4. #34
    Member Array GarySlinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    For those that choose to enter this county Legally, and work here legally, yet not seek citizenship, I feel their right to carry in this country should be subject to reciprocity with their home country. How many Canadians live and work here legally, and can carry Concealed Weapons? How many US citizens traveling or living in Canada legally can carry? Same for the UK, Japan, Mexico, etc.

    When it comes down to it, a legal resident, whether US citizen or not, can carry or obtain a permit almost anywhere it is required to do so.

    This same courtesy is not extended to US citizens that hold valid Carry Permits here, when they travel to other countries. If we are denied the privelege in Canada, then no Canadians can Carry here unless they want to become Citizens, and so forth.
    Ah, so they have no rights for the three to five years they have to be Resident before they can go Citizen? Bad argument...

    And the US doesn't have full reciprocity between STATES yet, let alone asking for it on an International level!

  5. #35
    New Member Array BlackMax's Avatar
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    I have no problem with permanent legal residents being able to own and bear arms.

    I have two good friends. One is from Pakistan and is now an American citizen and the other is from France and in the process of becoming a permanent resident. These two individuals are more American than most American's I know. Hard working, self reliant, self motivated, they do not expect or want anything from anyone and greatly appreciate the opportunities they have in the US to excel and prosper.

    I am sometimes amazed at how closely their beliefs mirror those of our Founding Fathers and how much more they know about our Country and our Constitution than most natural born Americans these days.
    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    --Benjamin Franklin

  6. #36
    VIP Member Array Redneck Repairs's Avatar
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    now i know this will be " wrong and i will be flamed for it " but imho anyone can and should own a gun , thier immigration status has nothing to do with the right of self defense .... and imho self defense is a god given right not a state driven privlage ... anyway my thoughts and i kept them to be avalable for a quick spam from opponents . anyway respond , i may well not agree with your ideas , but i will respect them .
    Make sure you get full value out of today , Do something worthwhile, because what you do today will cost you one day off the rest of your life .
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    anyone legally in this country and allow by current law should have the right to defend themselves.

    But isn't that the heart of the question? ARE they allowed by current law?

    What if what the law says IS that they have to jump through hoops X, Y, Z, X.118-4, X.118-92, and Y.74-28? Because it seems, from some of the accounts given here, that this is the case.

    Plus, we should probably be more careful in how we phrase this. I don't believe it's true that immigrants are being told they don't have the right to defend themselves... Isn't this about the right to conceal a firearm?

    Technically, even if you get attacked in a courtroom, where clearly you are not allowed to carry a firearm (I know, I know, judges have discretion to exempt people ), you still have the right to defend yourself.

  8. #38
    Ron
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    This topic had the potential for eliciting some nasty and inappropriate posts. That it has not, and strong statements of disagreement are not inappropriate, is a great credit to the members of ths Forum.

    Ron

  9. #39
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    "Everyone has a right to defend themselves."
    Quote Originally Posted by GarySlinger View Post
    Felons don't. Illegal immigrants don't...


    Isn't that inaccurate to say? They may lose the right to keep and bear arms, and particularly the right to carry a concealed firearm, but "the right to defend themselves"?

    Would that mean they are not allowed to raise a block if someone is punching them in the head?!

    (P.S. I love this forum, even if it were only for the "gah" smilie!! Holy moly that is a cool one! )

  10. #40
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    "Would that mean they are not allowed to raise a block if someone is punching them in the head?!"

    Yes, You are correct.

    Illegal Immigrants Lose The Right to block punches to their respective heads if they are in America illegally. They must stand there and do nothing.

  11. #41
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarySlinger View Post
    And the US doesn't have full reciprocity between STATES yet, let alone asking for it on an International level!

    Yes, but states don't issue citizenship to the U.S.
    I don't see the logical connection here.

    Just because states don't necessarily give reciprocity to carry permits, we should not expect other countries to recognize our gun ownership rights (not even carry, but ownership) -- even when their citizens want to claim that right in our country?

    I admit I'm on the fence about this, but I lean toward both sides (how is that possible?!)

    On one hand, I favor the idea of any good human person being entitled to effective means of self defense -- and that would include visitors or people from other countries who live and work here.

    On the other hand, I don't like the idea that anyone can walk into this country and no matter where they're from, or whether they even are of a character that will abide by our laws, they can carry a gun. Well, I guess I shouldn't say "I don't like" as much as I should say, "I'm not entirely comfortable..."

  12. #42
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    After reading this thread now I'm confused. How many different ways can you legally have a gun as a non citizen.
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  13. #43
    VIP Member Array peacefuljeffrey's Avatar
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    No eye deer.

  14. #44
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    IMO, an ILLEGAL immigrant should not be allowed to carry/possess firearms, however if they are legal then OK. Non-citizen does not mean illegal.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrioticRick View Post
    As long as they're legal and nationalized, I have no problem with it. Our rights are for our citizens.
    I agree

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