Immigrants With Guns...

This is a discussion on Immigrants With Guns... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Immigrants (not illegal !) with guns - concealed carry etc. Your thoughts, opinion?...

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Thread: Immigrants With Guns...

  1. #1
    Member Array TheHun's Avatar
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    Wink Immigrants With Guns...

    Immigrants (not illegal !) with guns - concealed carry etc.
    Your thoughts, opinion?

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  3. #2
    Member Array Amnesia Wes's Avatar
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    What are you asking? Should we allow immigrants to possess guns?

    Yes, we should allow immigrants to have guns, ccw etc.
    Why?
    Because wiith the exception of Native Americans, we're all immigrants.
    Always remember: 3 can keep a secret, if 2 are dead!

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array PatrioticRick's Avatar
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    As long as they're legal and nationalized, I have no problem with it. Our rights are for our citizens.
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  5. #4
    VIP Member Array ELCruisr's Avatar
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    Actually I know several legal immigrants who are very staunch 2nd ammendment supporters. They came from places where their guns were taken just before their "presidents" suddenly became "presidents for life". One I know had asked me if I had guns. When I said yes he vehemently stated that I should never, ever allow anyone to take it without a fight. If you don't, he said, it will mean the end of your country and maybe your life. We need more like him!
    If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good. ~ Thomas J. Watson, Jr.

  6. #5
    Senior Member Array afeazell21's Avatar
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    I agree with PatriotRick. As long as they follow everything by the book like everyone else has to then it is ok by me.
    "Dont be afraid to go after what you want to do, and what you want to be. But don't be afraid to be willing to pay the price." - Lane Frost

  7. #6
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    Follow The Rules...

    The same way one has to(supposed to)...to get into this country!

    Stay alert...stay safe!

    ret
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  8. #7
    Member Array MarkM's Avatar
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    I am a legal permanent resident of the US (not yet a citizen) and I am extremely pro second amendment. I carry 16hrs a day 7 days a week and go shooting at the local range at least weekly with my handguns and a couple of those "evil black rifle" things

    The second amendment applies to me just as much as it applies to a US citizen, and additionally Federal law allows legal permenent residents to own and purchase handguns (if they have been a resident of that state for 3 months (as proven by providing utility bills for the NICS check).

    The Constitution makes a very clear distinction between sections that apply to citizens and those that apply to "persons"

    Preamble:

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    Article I Section 2:

    No Person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the Age of twenty five Years, and been seven Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.
    (note the clear distinction above between person and citizen, citizens are a subset of persons)

    Article II Section 1:

    No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
    (again we have a distinction between person and citizen, and now resident is thrown into the mix as being different from person and citizen)

    Article II Section 2:

    The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States
    (here the militia is mentioned, not people, citizens, or residents)

    Amendment I:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
    (the first amendment applies to all people not citizens, residents, militia, states, presidents, or cartoon characters)

    Amendment II:

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
    (a militia (not all people, citizens, or residents) is necessary for the security of a free state, and all people (not just citizens, militia, or residents) have the right to keep and bear arms!)

    The 4th and 5th also apply directly to the people.

    Amendment IX:

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
    (people, not citizens or residents, have other rights too)

    Amendment X:

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
    (again, people)

    Amendment XIV:

    1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    (getting more complex, a definition of citizens as a subset of persons, and a clarification of how laws apply to citizens and persons)

    Amendment XV:

    1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
    (again a clear distinction that some rights apply to all persons (right to keep and bear arms), but other rights (right to vote) applies only to those persons who are also citizens)

    Hopefully this makes it clear that the Founding Fathers intended all people to have the right to keep and bear arms.
    First rule of a gunfight: Carry a gun

  9. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Dakotaranger's Avatar
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    Self-defense is a right, just because someone wasn't born here doesn't negate that fact. As long as all the I's are dotted and the T's crossed I'm all for it, same as a native American.
    "[T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons.
    They are left in full possession of them."

    Zacharia Johnson (speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention,25 June 1778)"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed." ~Alexander Hamilton

  10. #9
    Member Array MarkM's Avatar
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    one addional thought:

    I'm sure no poster above meant it this way, but to me questioning the right of a legal immigrant to own a gun is comparable to questioning why someone needs a gun that isn't typically used for hunting, "assault rifles" etc.

    "We must ban assault rifles because criminals use them to kill people" - no, the acts being committed are already illegal, why add more laws for criminals to ignore that restrict the rights of legitimate gun owners.

    "we must stop immigrants from owning guns in case they use them against someone" - no, the crimes themselves are already illegal, as is gun ownership for illegal immigrants and felons, it would just be adding more laws that criminals ignore but that restrict the rights of legitimate gun owners.

    Why do I own guns? because I can

    Why do I own "assault rifles"? because I can and because they are more fun to shoot than bolt actions

    Why do I own an "evil .50 caliber snip rifle capable of knocking a 747 out of the air"? I don't but I would if I could afford it because I can and it is fun to shoot

    Why do I need "high-capacity magazines"? because I can and because I don't enjoy having to stop and reload my mags

    Why do I need "cop killing hollow point ammo"? because I can and because if I am ever in the unfortunate situation where my life is in danger I want every advantage I can get
    First rule of a gunfight: Carry a gun

  11. #10
    Member Array osanmike's Avatar
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    I agree with all the previous posts. All law abiding people have a right to defend themselves from those who are not, citizen or not.
    "No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the Congress is in session."
    Mark Twain
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  12. #11
    Senior Member Array jeephipwr's Avatar
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    Equality

    Everyone has a right to defend themselves.

  13. #12
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    Thumbs up

    Right after they take the Oath they should be A-OK to own firearms.
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  14. #13
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    My wife is a Canadian citzen who just became a permanent resident (do not get me started at the amount of red tape we had to go through) who has just got her CCW, which was much easier than immigrating to this country legally. In 2 more years she can become a citizen. Just to let you know that is you marry an U.S. citizen does not automatically make you one.

  15. #14
    Member Array MarkM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    Right after they take the Oath they should be A-OK to own firearms.
    Respectfully, the Constitution and I disagree with you
    First rule of a gunfight: Carry a gun

  16. #15
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    Many know my history - been here 6 years and in beginning of 2002 when I got my green card was able to start resuming my handgun collection - and get my CCW. I have after the long process of paperwork, time and cash - now been a citizen just over a year.

    As a legal permanent resident I enjoyed the same basic rights as everyone, the exception was no vote. I was liable for taxes and duty bound like anyone else by the laws of the land and state.

    My only small problem used to be when purchasing a gun - on the 4473, having to declare I was not an actual US citizen and quote my alien reg # - which occasionally delayed the process. If however my local guy simply dialed in my DL # all was quick and easy.

    So I do feel if anyone is here legally - all dues paid and a clean sheet - then gun ownership and carry should be normal.
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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