Good: Illinois MUST pass concealed carry law

This is a discussion on Good: Illinois MUST pass concealed carry law within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Of course they give IL 180 days...world ends in 9. Pffffft...

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Thread: Good: Illinois MUST pass concealed carry law

  1. #76
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Good: Illinois MUST pass concealed carry law

    Of course they give IL 180 days...world ends in 9. Pffffft
    mprp, aus71383, ericb327 and 1 others like this.
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  3. #77
    Distinguished Member Array deadguy's Avatar
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    Good: Illinois MUST pass concealed carry law

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveWorkman View Post
    Busy morning. Good news is always the best news to report.
    Here's my take, with some interesting quotes from the ruling and a link to the actual court document. It's a slap down for those people who insist the 2A only applies to bearing arms in one's home. I'll write more on the ruling because it is loaded with quotable stuff. This has huge implications because it says without a hiccup that the 2A applies outside of the home.

    Court issues huge ruling for right to carry outside home

    The Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals today handed down a huge victory for Second Amendment advocates by declaring that the right to self-defense is “broader than the right to have a gun in one’s home” in a case that will force the Illinois Legislature to craft a carry statute after years of saying no.

    Court issues huge ruling for right to carry outside home - Seattle gun rights | Examiner.com
    Mr. Workman your article on this, as well as all the others I have read from you, was very well done. You highlighted the key points in this ruling. Great job reporting this.
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  4. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mprp View Post
    It would be great if the entire state was affected and everyone could CC. But it would at least be a huge step if they made the decision to let each County Sheriff make the call too. I know there's a lot of CA talk in here but pretty much the way it works is if you live in a big city county, you're screwed. If you live anywhere else in the state that has a Sheriff with common sense, you're golden. Is it not like this in other "May Issue" states? I like the idea of spreading out the decision making to the locals rather than a few in the big cities tying the hands of the entire state if it's May Issue we're talking about.

    If we're talking square miles, CA is probably 4/5 Will Issue, even though it's a May Issue state and that's just due to the graces of the County Sheriff who is given the authority to issue a license at his or her discretion. It could change county to county but for now that's the way it is. Even Sacramento County jumped on the wagon and started issuing CCW licenses. And as far as CC laws, CA isn't very restrictive as far as where you can or can't go, e.g. signs don't carry weight of law. Go figure. I know that CA has it's share of ridiculous gun laws so don't get me wrong there, but it could be worse as far as CCW regulation.

    Good Luck IL! And give them the fight of their lives over there!

    P.S. If this materializes, brace yourselves for the flood of Wally World Walk reports.
    After this 7th District ruling on IL, it shouldn't be any worse - only better. But enough relativism. Let's talk in absolutes. The language the framers had to use in dealing with tyrants.
    Most of us are still living under mandated, permitted, gun control. May we all enjoy Constitutional carry and the protections of the Second Amendment and not need a permit to carry a loaded gun. Some states and localities usurp that freedom.
    Yeah, CA has crazy gun laws, and permits have onerous restrictions: $300 for a two-year permit, mandatory course to renew, discretionary required psychological testing up to $150, an option to require 24 hours of community college coursework (if uniformly applied to the whole county)....
    The OP ruling is clear:
    The theoretical and empirical evidence (which overall is inconclusive) is consistent with concluding that a right to carry firearms in public may promote self-defense. Illinois had to provide us with more than merely a rational basis for believing that its uniquely sweeping ban is justified by an increase in public safety. It has failed to meet this burden.
    It couldn't be worse for us residents of no-issue counties who would carry for self defense but are unable to "repel force by force when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury." “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” mprp, you aren't meeting the burden to settle for the status quo, here.

    Alan Gura says that the new ruling means that "a law... which leaves it up to the unbridled discretion of a licensing official to determine whether you get to enjoy something that is your right isn't going to fly".

    Join me in writing to our state representatives to refer to this ruling, that we are law-abiding citizens - as are permitted CCW's in higher numbers than the general populace, and that we want a record that is without felony conviction to suffice for the "good moral character" requirement and for "self defense" to suffice as good cause to issue; and take those powers from the sheriff, and return them to us individuals.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  5. #79
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    Actually they must pass a law within 180 days, unless they appeal and get a stay on the order. I have a feeling nothing will happen until the SCOTUS hears the case and decides.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet1234 View Post
    Never did understand how something could be legal in one state but illegal in another state
    when our country is name the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. More likely they will say
    ALL THE OTHER STATES ARE WRONG & ILLINOIS IS CORRECT,,,,, ILLEGAL EVERY WHERE ELSE.

    because States are countries...we just happened to be united..when Jefferson spoke of loving his country he meant Virginia
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    Court ruling on Ill. gun ban sets stage for fight - Toshiba

    Backers of Illinois' ban on concealed weapons vowed Wednesday to fight for continued controls on gun possession, a day after a federal appeals court struck down the nation's last such prohibition as unconstitutional and ordered the state to craft a law allowing it.
    'They' certainly don't want to see this (lawful carry) occur. Illinois (especially Chicago) is gearing up for a 'street figh't on this.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

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    I'll bet Illinois will have zero reciprocity agreements!
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  9. #83
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    Typical of Gov. Quinn to throw in his jab about a new AWB. He tried to revive that after the Colorado shooting as well.

  10. #84
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    Guaranteed you can expect serious restrictions. I would expect there will be no carrying in most public buildings, and main use will be restricted to walking down the sidewalk. Other possible restrictions to expect are: max mag size, max caliber, max barrel length, and if I know illinois there could even be a decibel level restriction.
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  11. #85
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    I can picture this headline next year..."IL residents allowed to carry 22LR pistols." But a few weeks later the politicians will complain that 22's are way too dangerous because they're "too quiet"

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    From the Toshiba link listed above: 'The Supreme Court's rulings on the Second Amendment were "very limited, saying the home is your castle, and it didn't apply to other places," she [Barbara Flynn Currie] said.'

    Currie falls in with many antis, continuing to misquote Heller and McDonald. Neither decision explicitly excluded places other than the home. I hope IL does appeal and the Supremes accept the case.

    I must disagree with the MUST in the title of this thread. If the IL AG does not appeal, and the IL legislature doesn't pass a CC bill, after the 180 days expires, IL is the second coming of VT. Think about it: the antis blocked the last IL CC bill, the pros could block the antis' attempt at a super-strict may-issue bill. Chicago with home rule would still be a lost cause, but the rest of the state would have constitutional carry with no statute prohibiting any carry.
    Last edited by Anubis; December 13th, 2012 at 03:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    From the Toshiba link listed above: 'The Supreme Court's rulings on the Second Amendment were "very limited, saying the home is your castle, and it didn't apply to other places," she [Barbara Flynn Currie] said.'

    Currie falls in with many antis, continuing to misquote Heller and McDonald. Neither decision explicitly excluded places other than the home. I hope IL does appeal and the Supremes accept the case.

    I must disagree with the MUST in the title of this thread. If the IL AG does not appeal, and the IL legislature doesn't pass a CC bill, after the 180 days expires, IL is the second coming of VT. Think about it: the antis blocked the last IL CC bill, the pros could block the antis' attempt at a super-strict may-issue bill. Chicago with home rule would still be a lost cause, but the rest of the state would have constitutional carry with no statute prohibiting any carry.
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  14. #88
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    Don't they just have to pass a 'carry law'? I didn't read it all so maybe I missed where it specified 'concealed'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder71 View Post
    Don't they just have to pass a 'carry law'? I didn't read it all so maybe I missed where it specified 'concealed'.
    You may be right about that (I read the whole thing but don't remember) but I doubt they would want open carry going on. That'd freak them out more than concealed most likely. At least their sheep wouldn't be constantly living "in fear" with all of these people with guns on their hips. They'd probably rather have them remain blissfully unaware.
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  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by linuss View Post
    Court strikes down Illinois concealed carry law - News - Boston.com


    According to the 7th circuit, they have 180 days to pass the law.

    Granted you know they'll make it restrictive as hell and may issue, but it's a victory for us and loss for them.
    It's not clear to me exactly what specific law the court ruled unconstitutional and what all that law encompasses, but the discussion in the ruling is clearly talking about more than just concealed carry. They're talking about the virtual ban on possessing ready to use handguns in public, including concealed carry. I don't believe there's any way that writing a concealed handgun law by itself is going to fix the problem. The states have been hiding behind bad precedence for over a hundred years, and the gun control gig is finally up. We have a 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms for the purpose of individual self defense, and the courts are now bound to the Heller ruling.

    For example in Texas, we have a similar law. No possession of handguns in public, except, except, except CHL, etc etc. That's still not going to cut it. I've been saying that since Heller. How will the states justify that? They haven't had to up until now, but the one thing we know, from Heller, is that a "rational basis" won't be enough. You could see those handcuffs all throughout this ruling. The other thing we know is that they don't even have a rational basis. They have had a popular and historic basis, ie bad precedence, and that ain't going to cut it anymore.
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