Would you intervene in a shooting attack where shooter has bulletproof vest? - Page 6

Would you intervene in a shooting attack where shooter has bulletproof vest?

This is a discussion on Would you intervene in a shooting attack where shooter has bulletproof vest? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; You never know the situation life will put you in. That is why if you carried concealed you have a obligation to practice, practice, practice. ...

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Thread: Would you intervene in a shooting attack where shooter has bulletproof vest?

  1. #76
    Member Array RandyatOBX's Avatar
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    You never know the situation life will put you in. That is why if you carried concealed you have a obligation to practice, practice, practice. At 30 yards you need to own a 6" circle, 15 yards a 3" circle, 10 ft, a eyeball. You need to be able to do this in all practical body positions and in varying light conditions. Run a 100yard dash, then immediately begin practice with your gun, simulating stress. Bulletproof vest? Put a round through the jerk’s eye, through the thigh, take out a knee cap. Place a round into the lower groin. Know your gun and capabilities. This determines your response. I have seen CCW permit holders who’s best choice would be to throw the gun and run screaming.
    goldshellback likes this.


  2. #77
    Member Array F350_6's Avatar
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    The latest story I read said he was wearing a load bearing vest, so in my mind that really changes the question to, how did a guy wearing a hockey mask and carrying an stolen AR-15 just wander into a mall food court without anyone becoming alarmed or seeming to even notice until they heard the shots?
    marcclarke and BkCo1 like this.

  3. #78
    Distinguished Member Array matthew03's Avatar
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    Practice your failure drills and fight on.
    goldshellback likes this.

  4. #79
    Senior Member Array CR Williams's Avatar
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    I think it an incorrect assumption that you can very quickly and/or easily look at someone and know if they are wearing body armor or not. In many, if not most, cases, as is evidenced by a couple of the latest shootings and the reports thereof, load-bearing vests look the same as armor carriers or armor vests to most people. I'm betting if you haven't lived with them a lot, you can't just look at somebody and say with certainty "body armor" or not.

    It seems best to set up a general plan of engagement (which you acknowledge will be modified on the spot--George Washington said, "Plans are useless, planning is essential.") that will cover both the presence and absence of body armor. At this point, it still seems advisable to base that planning on a lack of armor, but some provision for it must still be included nonetheless, especially since it doesn't add much, if any, complexity or effort to the plan to include it.

    One interesting point I note from the latest attack is the report of at least one witness and maybe more that they were within ten feet and behind the shooter as he approached and then began shooting. Most of you here, I believe, would be able to take advantage of that positioning. Also, the shooter reportedly had a problem with the rifle and dropped a magazine at one point. This is something that seems to happen a lot according to reports of AS incidents, and is something else that can be used to advantage by a prepared defender.
    "Oh, bother," said Pooh as he rocked another mag into the 556R...

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  5. #80
    Senior Member Array mulle46's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billb1960 View Post
    Regardless you think a good lawyer couldn't make a case?

    So a bullet from your gun is determined to be the cause of death for a 7 year old boy that you didn't see behind the shooter. Do you think when his family files the civil suit and their lawyer has you on the stand he won't ask you if you saw the big Gun Free Zone signs posted prominently at every entrance to the mall? And when you respond that as far as you know they don't carry they weight of law that he'll just give up and move on? Nope, he'll grill you on why you would bring a gun to a place which was clearly marked Gun Free Zone, then he'll find out how often you've trained, what kind of a shot you are, how's your eyesight, how many times you've been shot at, what internet forums you participate in etc. All the stuff you never see in the movies.
    That's a whole another scenario to consider after intervening. For myself, I would respond and have to deal with the aftermath when the active shooter incident is over. If your plan is get out of Dodge, thats your plan. I couldnt and look at myself in the mirror afterwards. Certain people will run towards gunfire, others run away.
    You gain strength, courage, and confidence by every experience in which you really stop to look fear in the face. You are able to say to yourself, "I have lived through this horror. I can take the next thing that comes along." . . . You must do the thing you think you cannot do. Eleanor Roosevelt

  6. #81
    Senior Member Array Darrow75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    What's the matter?--- can't handle the truth? I surely hope you are just stating a fact of this thread and replies that you were surprised had not appeared yet. If you mean it the other way--go suck on a lemon.
    Classy.

  7. #82
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onacoma View Post
    To engage or not to engage is a thing you must train for as well as the BGs having body armor. The LEOs do and CCs should train for the worst case which means you would practice the two shots center mass and a head shot. As some have stated, a hit on center mass of body armor will stun the BG. I'm sure you've heard shoot the bg to the ground! We been lucky as the recent deranged mass murders have been loners and not a group like at Columbine.

    Again do you train every month? If not, you're not prepared!
    I have just started practicing IDPA shooting at a gun club. Last time I went the course of fire was several targerts that required (2) head shots, and seveal that required two to the chest, one to the head, also required movment, use of cover and reloads on the clock. Practice, practice practice.

    I know it's not the same a real life, but it's better than nothing, and quite a lot of fun also.

  8. #83
    VIP Member Array TedBeau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nmbr5ml View Post
    Just a few thoughts on the matter...

    A chest rack filled with loaded mags WILL stop your rounds.
    I wouldn't bet my life on a mag stopping a rifle round. It didn't in this test.

    The Box O' Truth #9 - Magazines vs. Rifle Rounds - Page 1

    Unfortunately they didn't check for how much energy/penetration the bullet had after passing thru the mag, or how well a handgun round works against a mag but I bet it would still hurt like hell!

  9. #84
    VIP Member Array suntzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F350_6 View Post
    The latest story I read said he was wearing a load bearing vest, so in my mind that really changes the question to, how did a guy wearing a hockey mask and carrying an stolen AR-15 just wander into a mall food court without anyone becoming alarmed or seeming to even notice until they heard the shots?
    Well, Jason Voorhees seemed to walk around with impunity for 12 Friday the 13th movies....
    1 old 0311 and pittypat21 like this.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
    And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

    Isaiah 6:8

  10. #85
    VIP Member Array TN_Mike's Avatar
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    I have not read this thread other than the title. I will comment on what the poster asked.

    Yes, I would engage a shooter who is obviously wearing a ballistic vest. If it was obvious or if after the first hit or two he didn't react in a way that made me think I was actually wounding him, and assuming I was still alive to continue to engage the shooter, I would go for head shots or aim for the pelvis area.

    And, I am not interested in debating this response with anyone. It is what I would do and if you disagree with my plan, so be it. You respond the way you want to a situation like that.
    ,=====o00o _
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  11. #86
    Senior Member Array wishyouwell's Avatar
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    The coward who shot up the school today. Yet another psycho wearing a vest...

  12. #87
    New Member Array Itsanaddiction's Avatar
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    I was just talking about this in starbucks today. Anyways look at it like this. If i were to start shooting at you or even around you what would you to first? Find cover right? Just because you have a vest does not mean your brain aint working. Point two. Just cause you have a vest does not mean when you get hit at point blank or from a far mean your not going to be knocked off your feet. Getting shot hurts vest or no vest. If you can lay down cover fire and make this dude duck down so he stops shooting or if you hit him to knock him off his feet. People like that dont think people like you have guns.

  13. #88
    Member Array brazildsm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natdad View Post
    This latest shooting episode at an Oregon mall has me thinking. I have been carrying more often recently because of a seemingly increasing number of episodes where a shooter enters a mall or movie theater and starts randomly shooting. I always thought I would intervene with my firearm if I was ever in that situation, but one thing I hadn't thought of before and my wife pointed out, is that the assailant is often armed with an assault rifle and a bulletproof vest. Is there anything one can reasonably do in a situation like that? Is the best course of action simply to take cover or run?
    yes I would intervine. A shot anywhere in the face/head region will stop a person also not sure that a vest would help the perp if shot in the groin:)

  14. #89
    New Member Array Itsanaddiction's Avatar
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  15. #90
    Member Array TumblingFTW's Avatar
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    I carry a Five-seveN loaded with (legal) ammunition that will penetrate multiple Level IIIa vests (the heaviest soft armor you can buy). So yes, if I was near an active shooter I would drop him in a New York second.

    Those of you that think you are going to stop an adrenaline-rushed madman with body shots to his armor, or even more laughable, a head-shot, are dreaming. You always shoot center mass and hope a few of your bullets hit.

    If you have a common pistol caliber - 9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP - and the perp has BA, you are best served avoiding a confrontation. All these reports lately of shooters with BA make me more thankful each and every day that I bought and carry a Five-seveN.

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