Negligent Discharge in vehicle. Wake up call to the CCW community. Sig P238 - Page 4

Negligent Discharge in vehicle. Wake up call to the CCW community. Sig P238

This is a discussion on Negligent Discharge in vehicle. Wake up call to the CCW community. Sig P238 within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Glad no one was hurt. Thanks for the reminder, and being real. Nobody is immune from things like this. We all must stay vigilant and ...

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Thread: Negligent Discharge in vehicle. Wake up call to the CCW community. Sig P238

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array tkruf's Avatar
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    Re: Negligent Discharge in vehicle. Wake up call to the CCW community. Sig P238

    Glad no one was hurt. Thanks for the reminder, and being real. Nobody is immune from things like this. We all must stay vigilant and remember the basic safety procedures while handling firearms.

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  2. #47
    Member Array awanatech's Avatar
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    Thank you for taking the time to post this as a reminder to all of us about becoming complacent around our firearms. I'm glad that no one was injured.

    BTW, I'm on southside of Atl also- welcome to the forum.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Array BkCo1's Avatar
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    Frado, if you carry your 1911 cocked and locked like it was designed you won't have that problem. Just advice.
    Semper Fi
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  4. #49
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Negligent and accidental by definition are intertwined....... Yes we all have to try hard(always) for something such as this not to happen. With that said, unfortunately as hard as we all try it will continue to happen because we are human.
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
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    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  5. #50
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    Thanks for sharing your experience. It is a great reminder that when we manipulate our weapons they deserve our full attention. Definitely not something we should be doing while we are driving. Wait until you park then prepare your weapon for carry. I'm sure a weapon going off inside of a car was a noise you'll never get out of your head.
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  6. #51
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    I'll call this one an accidental discharge. Take the gun to a range & try to duplicate what happened. Maybe you'll learn what caused it.

    You're braver than me. I'm not sure I would have ever told anyone about this. By you admitting that your gun discharged when you didn't want it to is a wake up call for everyone. I hope this doesn't discourage you from carrying a firearm in the future. Thanks for sharing it publicly.
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  7. #52
    Distinguished Member Array kelcarry's Avatar
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    Hey atlsig: Glad all is OK and appreciate your thread comments. I got a little ansy when you mentioned all the movements associated with the firearm in the confines of the car---this just "stuck out" like a big red flag to me. You did make that point in your thread and regardless of anything else, this strikes me as the real precursor to this whole episode. The fact that you could not come close to replicating tends to say this and I will bet that Sig, if they looked at firearm, would find nothing wrong with the firearm.

  8. #53
    Member Array Mdnightdrums's Avatar
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    Glad you both are OK.
    I hope there is no permanent hearing damage caused by this.

    Welcome to the club!


    Mike

  9. #54
    New Member Array atlsig's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the positive comments and warm welcome. I have been a lurker for years, drawing from the knowledge of the forum. This incident scared me badly. I find myself thinking about it frequently since it happened. I hope it serves as a reminder to everyone. I have carried since, just not with that gun. I'm very leery of it. I have not called Sig Sauer because I was not able to reproduce the failure at the range. I'm really feel confident that it was my fault and a finger must have slipped into the trigger guard unintentionally. I just won't carry this gun any more since there is that slight doubt in my mind.

    I'm going to attempt to answer some of the questions from fellow forum members.

    I totally agree with the limp wrist comment. I did not have a firm shooting grip on the gun when I manipulated the safety. The failure to eject was most likely due to this loose grip.

    Quote Originally Posted by high pockets View Post
    Countrygunner, in all likelihood the failure to eject was due to "limp wristing" the firearm. The way the situation was explained in the original post, the OP never seemed to have gotten a good "firing grip" on the pistol.
    I do carry cocked and locked. The reason the hammer was down on a loaded chamber is because I had grown complacent and started decocking the gun and putting the safety on instead of clearing the chamber when the gun was not in my holster. I want to stress that this is an VERY VERY BAD PRACTICE. I don't think this was the cause of the AD in this case, but I was just asking for trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by whoppo View Post
    Do you not carry it cocked and locked?
    There were no bystanders at the intersection where the AD occurred. There was a car behind me at the intersection, and they actually honked their horn when the light turned green because I didn't pull away fast enough. I don't know for sure, but I doubt they heard the shot, and if they did that they were able to attribute it to a specific direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by DubH00 View Post
    Do you recall anyone outside of the vehicle looking at your vehicle? and you are right you never never never can get complacent with anything you do.
    Totally agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by mprp View Post
    I also agree that it could have been a limp wrist effect that jammed the action so keep that in mind as you fumble through the possibilities.
    Bingo. I had gotten into the habit of lowering the hammer and engaging the safety when the gun was not on my hip. Your analysis is spot on.

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    I carry a gun the way it's meant to be carried my 1911 is cocked and locked,when I have to unholster it goes into my COM safe in the car still cocked and locked,when I unholster at night the gun remains cocked and locked.The only time I unload and drop the hammer is when I clean it.
    Sounds like you got complacent and was dropping the hammer on a chambered round in a gun that is designed to be carried with the hammer back safety on.
    Hi BkCo1. The P238 does not have a grip safety.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkCo1 View Post
    Welcome aboard. I am glad you and your wife are not injured. A couple of comments to help you not flame you. All 1911 style gun are carried condition 1. Cocked and locked. Mine stay that way unless cleaning. You already learned don't mess with it while trying to do something else. Unless Jocky is having a sale. Having a gun discharge in a car is PAINFUL as you are now no. Does that Sig have a grip safety?
    I had a discharge with a South American 1911 style with no grip safety. Went to clean it. I don't clean with anybody around. Took the safety off and put a round through an outside door. Thank goodnees I live in the country. Gun went into the shop the next day for repair. It can happen to anyone so don't beat your self up. Just move on. Be safe.

    Hi F350. The ammo was Corbon Pow'RBall 70gr. The round impacted the door at an approximately 45 degree down angle. It entered the plastic door console, and exited the console and lodged into the frame of the car in the door gasket. I'm not sure if was deflected by the internal door components. The distance from the muzzle to the door was around 8-12 inches. The exit hole does not look to be a stright line from the entrance hole, so I think the round possibly changed trajectory inside the door.

    Quote Originally Posted by F350_6 View Post
    Glad to hear no one was hurt, but I do have a couple of questions if you don't mind. What type of ammo were you carrying? If you consider flat, horizontal, 0 degrees, at what approximate angle do you think the round impacted the door? I'll assume the distance was less than 2' or so. I don't have a lot of experience with .380's, but since my wife recently got one, I've become more interested in the ballistics. Your car door provides some interesting real world insight.
    Hi QKShooter, I agree that it's probably an overstatement, but the possibility of tragedy was terrifyingly sobering. I keep thinking that the round could have ricocheted inside the door and exited towards my wife.

    Quote Originally Posted by QKShooter View Post
    I put my life and the life of my wife at risk.
    Well, you did have your muzzle pointed in a safe direction. So...you can be extra hard on yourself if you want to be but, (in actuality) you did not risk your life or the life of your Wife if your muzzle was pointed in a safe direction.
    Ok, this is just funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by paullie View Post
    Glad you guys are ok. Just be glad it was a lil bitty 380, surprized it didn't just bounce off the door and land on the floor . If it had been the almighty 45 your car would have blown up.
    Hi kelcarry. You are correct, that was my one of the biggest takeaways from the incident. We must maintain focus when we are handling our firearms.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelcarry View Post
    Hey atlsig: Glad all is OK and appreciate your thread comments. I got a little ansy when you mentioned all the movements associated with the firearm in the confines of the car---this just "stuck out" like a big red flag to me. You did make that point in your thread and regardless of anything else, this strikes me as the real precursor to this whole episode. The fact that you could not come close to replicating tends to say this and I will bet that Sig, if they looked at firearm, would find nothing wrong with the firearm.

  10. #55
    Distinguished Member Array tcox4freedom's Avatar
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    First- welcome to the forum.

    Secondly- Thanks for sharing your story with all of us. Hopefully, we can all learn from others mistakes.

    The primary thing I see you became complacent & negligent about was handling your firearm when it just wasn't necessary. IMHO, you should have either placed your firearm on before you got in the car or after you arrived at the restaurant. When you are handling your firearm, you don't want your attention divided on something else; especially, if your attention is divided on the most dangerous thing any of us do. (DRIVING)

    Thanks again for sharing.

    -

  11. #56
    Senior Member Array mastercapt's Avatar
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    The SIG 238 is made fromthe COlt Mustang, which is a shrunk down 1911.
    The Mk 80 mode to the 1911 which the Mustang (and 238) has requires the trigger to be held back to fire. If the trigger is not held back, a pin locks the firing pin from moving.
    To test for this, and make damn sure its unloaded, is to cock the hammer. Press the rear of the firing pin with a wood tool. It should not go all the way in. Now Do the same while holding the trigger back. The firing pin should move all the way in. Thats what a Mk 80 does.

    The reason for the mod was back in the 70s the Federal Govt was trying to stop the import of the cheap "Saturday Night Special" guns coming from Spain and South America. They came up with criteria, one of which to cock the gun and drop it on its hammer onto a wood floor from 3' and the gun should not fire. They dicovered the 1911 which was govt issue flunked this test. Hence, the Mk80 mod came into being.
    For the OP: If you are sure that your finger was not on the trigger, your gun may have a problem.

    I carry my Mustang loaded, chambered and hammer down. I practice pulling cocking and shooting.

  12. #57
    Member Array AK_Brian's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing this. I can definitely understand your hesitance when you're not 100% sure it was your direct fault. It's a great lesson for guys like me, who are still early into their self defense carrying life that we can never be too cautious with our firearms.

    Glad you're both safe!

  13. #58
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    Let me first just say, so glad that you and your wife are okay.

    Now, that that's out of the way:

    Rule #5 - Carry a Glock.


    *sorry, could not help myself.
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  14. #59
    Senior Member Array theskunk's Avatar
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    My wife was reading an email on her iPhone and was unaware of what I was doing. I reached down and grabbed my holstered gun, removed it from the holster, pointed it in a safe direction, cocked it, and put the safety on, and BANG.

    I guess there is something to be said for a S&W 642 ....... I always prefer a DA/SA .... with a manual safety. My car gun is a 1911, and I just can never bring myself to keep a round in the chamber.

  15. #60
    Senior Member Array velo99's Avatar
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    Glad you're all okay. Scary stuff. Welcome to the circus. I still cringe every time I decock my P89. Hearing that click on a loaded chamber scares me. I have developed a new clearing procedure for my gun. Might not be new, just new to me.
    Drop the mag partially and grip it with my little finger. Hold the palm of my hand over the ejection port and rack the slide letting the round fall onto the mag. Remove mag and let the loose round fall into my hand.
    We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.

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