December 13th, 2012 11:33 PM
Re: Negligent Discharge in vehicle. Wake up call to the CCW community. Sig P238
Glad no one was hurt. Thanks for the reminder, and being real. Nobody is immune from things like this. We all must stay vigilant and remember the basic safety procedures while handling firearms.
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December 13th, 2012 11:39 PM
Thank you for taking the time to post this as a reminder to all of us about becoming complacent around our firearms. I'm glad that no one was injured.
BTW, I'm on southside of Atl also- welcome to the forum.
December 13th, 2012 11:42 PM
Frado, if you carry your 1911 cocked and locked like it was designed you won't have that problem. Just advice.
"Marines don't surrender-they win or die." from Brute
December 14th, 2012 12:53 AM
Negligent and accidental by definition are intertwined....... Yes we all have to try hard(always) for something such as this not to happen. With that said, unfortunately as hard as we all try it will continue to happen because we are human.
"One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
--Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney
Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791
and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."
December 14th, 2012 06:33 AM
Thanks for sharing your experience. It is a great reminder that when we manipulate our weapons they deserve our full attention. Definitely not something we should be doing while we are driving. Wait until you park then prepare your weapon for carry. I'm sure a weapon going off inside of a car was a noise you'll never get out of your head.
Know Guns, Know Safety, Know Peace.
No Guns, No Safety, No Peace.
Guns are like sex and air...its no big deal until YOU can't get any.
December 14th, 2012 07:02 AM
I'll call this one an accidental discharge. Take the gun to a range & try to duplicate what happened. Maybe you'll learn what caused it.
You're braver than me. I'm not sure I would have ever told anyone about this. By you admitting that your gun discharged when you didn't want it to is a wake up call for everyone. I hope this doesn't discourage you from carrying a firearm in the future. Thanks for sharing it publicly.
USN Submarine & UDT/SEAL Veteran
1SG, US Army Retired - Airborne Infantry All the Way!
Special Warfare Mentor
December 14th, 2012 07:10 AM
Hey atlsig: Glad all is OK and appreciate your thread comments. I got a little ansy when you mentioned all the movements associated with the firearm in the confines of the car---this just "stuck out" like a big red flag to me. You did make that point in your thread and regardless of anything else, this strikes me as the real precursor to this whole episode. The fact that you could not come close to replicating tends to say this and I will bet that Sig, if they looked at firearm, would find nothing wrong with the firearm.
December 14th, 2012 08:04 AM
Glad you both are OK.
I hope there is no permanent hearing damage caused by this.
Welcome to the club!
December 14th, 2012 10:33 AM
Thanks for all of the positive comments and warm welcome. I have been a lurker for years, drawing from the knowledge of the forum. This incident scared me badly. I find myself thinking about it frequently since it happened. I hope it serves as a reminder to everyone. I have carried since, just not with that gun. I'm very leery of it. I have not called Sig Sauer because I was not able to reproduce the failure at the range. I'm really feel confident that it was my fault and a finger must have slipped into the trigger guard unintentionally. I just won't carry this gun any more since there is that slight doubt in my mind.
I'm going to attempt to answer some of the questions from fellow forum members.
I totally agree with the limp wrist comment. I did not have a firm shooting grip on the gun when I manipulated the safety. The failure to eject was most likely due to this loose grip.
I do carry cocked and locked. The reason the hammer was down on a loaded chamber is because I had grown complacent and started decocking the gun and putting the safety on instead of clearing the chamber when the gun was not in my holster. I want to stress that this is an VERY VERY BAD PRACTICE. I don't think this was the cause of the AD in this case, but I was just asking for trouble.
Originally Posted by high pockets
There were no bystanders at the intersection where the AD occurred. There was a car behind me at the intersection, and they actually honked their horn when the light turned green because I didn't pull away fast enough. I don't know for sure, but I doubt they heard the shot, and if they did that they were able to attribute it to a specific direction.
Originally Posted by whoppo
Originally Posted by DubH00
Bingo. I had gotten into the habit of lowering the hammer and engaging the safety when the gun was not on my hip. Your analysis is spot on.
Originally Posted by mprp
Hi BkCo1. The P238 does not have a grip safety.
Originally Posted by dukalmighty
Originally Posted by BkCo1
Hi F350. The ammo was Corbon Pow'RBall 70gr. The round impacted the door at an approximately 45 degree down angle. It entered the plastic door console, and exited the console and lodged into the frame of the car in the door gasket. I'm not sure if was deflected by the internal door components. The distance from the muzzle to the door was around 8-12 inches. The exit hole does not look to be a stright line from the entrance hole, so I think the round possibly changed trajectory inside the door.
Hi QKShooter, I agree that it's probably an overstatement, but the possibility of tragedy was terrifyingly sobering. I keep thinking that the round could have ricocheted inside the door and exited towards my wife.
Originally Posted by F350_6
Ok, this is just funny.
Originally Posted by QKShooter
Hi kelcarry. You are correct, that was my one of the biggest takeaways from the incident. We must maintain focus when we are handling our firearms.
Originally Posted by paullie
Originally Posted by kelcarry
December 14th, 2012 10:57 AM
First- welcome to the forum.
Secondly- Thanks for sharing your story with all of us. Hopefully, we can all learn from others mistakes.
The primary thing I see you became complacent & negligent about was handling your firearm when it just wasn't necessary. IMHO, you should have either placed your firearm on before you got in the car or after you arrived at the restaurant. When you are handling your firearm, you don't want your attention divided on something else; especially, if your attention is divided on the most dangerous thing any of us do. (DRIVING)
Thanks again for sharing.
December 14th, 2012 12:13 PM
The SIG 238 is made fromthe COlt Mustang, which is a shrunk down 1911.
The Mk 80 mode to the 1911 which the Mustang (and 238) has requires the trigger to be held back to fire. If the trigger is not held back, a pin locks the firing pin from moving.
To test for this, and make damn sure its unloaded, is to cock the hammer. Press the rear of the firing pin with a wood tool. It should not go all the way in. Now Do the same while holding the trigger back. The firing pin should move all the way in. Thats what a Mk 80 does.
The reason for the mod was back in the 70s the Federal Govt was trying to stop the import of the cheap "Saturday Night Special" guns coming from Spain and South America. They came up with criteria, one of which to cock the gun and drop it on its hammer onto a wood floor from 3' and the gun should not fire. They dicovered the 1911 which was govt issue flunked this test. Hence, the Mk80 mod came into being.
For the OP: If you are sure that your finger was not on the trigger, your gun may have a problem.
I carry my Mustang loaded, chambered and hammer down. I practice pulling cocking and shooting.
December 14th, 2012 01:48 PM
Thanks for sharing this. I can definitely understand your hesitance when you're not 100% sure it was your direct fault. It's a great lesson for guys like me, who are still early into their self defense carrying life that we can never be too cautious with our firearms.
Glad you're both safe!
December 14th, 2012 02:08 PM
Let me first just say, so glad that you and your wife are okay.
Now, that that's out of the way:
Rule #5 - Carry a Glock.
*sorry, could not help myself.
"Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other."
-- President Ronald Reagan
December 14th, 2012 02:10 PM
My wife was reading an email on her iPhone and was unaware of what I was doing. I reached down and grabbed my holstered gun, removed it from the holster, pointed it in a safe direction, cocked it, and put the safety on, and BANG.
I guess there is something to be said for a S&W 642 ....... I always prefer a DA/SA .... with a manual safety. My car gun is a 1911, and I just can never bring myself to keep a round in the chamber.
December 14th, 2012 05:29 PM
Glad you're all okay. Scary stuff. Welcome to the circus. I still cringe every time I decock my P89. Hearing that click on a loaded chamber scares me. I have developed a new clearing procedure for my gun. Might not be new, just new to me.
Drop the mag partially and grip it with my little finger. Hold the palm of my hand over the ejection port and rack the slide letting the round fall onto the mag. Remove mag and let the loose round fall into my hand.
We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us.
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