Is 21 too young for a CCW permit?

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I don\'t agree with you but I think I know what you are saying. Correct me if I\'m wrong. I\'m only 22 and am new to shooting, but there are alot of guys I know that are just not grown up yet. Cocky is a good description in some case, immature probably is closer to the way I see them. They even make me feel old. My parents have always said that I was very mature for my age because I never wore my hat backwards, my pants a foot below my waist or got into the goth or drug scene like some of my friends did. There are few of my friends or just people I know that I would want to be around if they had a gun with them. I also know some adults that I would not want to be around if they had a gun either, but probably less of them than my age.

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I could have said those words from my own mouth and it would have been true.

clipse

In our great country at 18 years of age you are tried as an adult for any crimes you may commit, and given the death penalty if it applies. You may enter into a legally binding contract on your own. You may join the armed forces and possibly die serving this country.

Why can you not legally carry a firearm for protection? You are responsible for yourself and your actions under the law, so why can you not be responsible for your own safety?

While I\'m at it, why can you not legally drink adult beverages?

If you aren\'t mature enough to own and carry a firearm for self defense, or consume adult beverages, then you should not be able to be tried as an adult for crimes, sign contracts or join the military.

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Do you wanna give me specific reasons why you think that? I know alot of people that are well over 25 that are alot less capable of handling firearms than me and my similarly aged friends.

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The majority of 18-24 year olds that I have come in contact with are just too impulsive and lack the maturity to be carrying a concealed firearm.

Do all 18-24 year olds fall in this catagory, obviously not, but then again I\'m one of those guys that thinks that military service should be compulsory for evey male and female upon graduation from high school, which also should be compulsory!

Unfortunately there must be age limits on things however unjustified and artificial they may seem at the time, and right now most states have set that limit at 21.

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Originally posted by Tincup

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Do you wanna give me specific reasons why you think that? I know alot of people that are well over 25 that are alot less capable of handling firearms than me and my similarly aged friends.

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The majority of 18-24 year olds that I have come in contact with are just too impulsive and lack the maturity to be carrying a concealed firearm.

Do all 18-24 year olds fall in this catagory, obviously not, but then again I\'m one of those guys that thinks that military service should be compulsory for evey male and female upon graduation from high school, which also should be compulsory!

Unfortunately there must be age limits on things however unjustified and artificial they may seem at the time, and right now most states have set that limit at 21.

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So if I decide to go to college and get a job and start a family instead of joining the sevice than I shouldn\'t be allowed to properly be able to defend myself and more importantly my family untill I reach the age of 25? I can defend this country on foriegn soil but by god don\'t let me defend my self in my home town.

At the age of 21 you\'re resposible for your actions after drinking. Maybe we should raise the age limit of that. I think alot of people my age don\'t drink responsibly. While we\'re at it lets talk about smoking. The majority of poeple know that cigerrettes have killed people by causing lung cancer and verious other illness\'s. And still they smoke and smoke ALOT. Thats not responsible at all. Adn they are not just hurting themselves they are hurting other poeple with second hand smoke. Maybe we should just do away with that all together.

That is the mentality you are using when you say the age limit should be 25.

It royally ticks me off that someone would suggest such a thing. Why should I have to suffer because of the idiots out there? Thats the kind of mentality that is used to restrict and prohibit CCW in the first place. The exact same mindset that antis like Rosie O\'donell and Micheal Moore have.

Seems awefully silly and just plane stupid to me.


clipse

25?

Well, that\'s just great. Should I share the story about my psycho ex - the one who threatened to take me out, and no, I\'m not meaning on a date? I was 21 at the time. Shall I describe how he called my workplace and threatened me, my co-workers, my employer, and our client? How he demanded money from my boss for no logical reason? The months of harrassment and legal red tape? How it took over 20 minutes for the police to respond when he threatened me from a payphone?

Would you have stood over my beaten, raped, and bloody body and said, \"Well, honey, some of your peers are just too cocky and full of bravado.\"

That same thought process is used by the antis who believe that no one should own a gun, because Bubba over here went hunting drunk and shot his buddy in the foot and Thug Brutha over there shot a kid in a drive-by.

Sorry, guys, I have to go with the reasoning of my buddies.

I\'m a \'boomer,'and as such, many of my associates are veterans. We have discussed the subject over many topics, intermitently dispersed amongst comments of the best beer, the finest rifle, the foxiest actress and the fastest Harley.

Their rationale is plain, and a biting commentary on the mores of our government and entitlement. It goes something like this:

\"When I was drunk and high on hashish as a teenager in Cambodia, the government gave me automatic rifles and M-79s and demanded that I kill. Now that I\'m an upstanding adult member of polite society in the \'burbs, it appears I cannot be trusted with .38 SPL. ***.\"

This is about the time I ask him if there is any new chrome on his scooter. But his point is well taken.

This issue is a mish-mash of governmental control, public persception and pressure from lobby groups. The individual\'s maturity and competence are on the bottom of the list.

It always ticks me off when someone thinks just because I haven\'t reached some magical age, that I am somehow incapable of being a mature adult. I am 22 years old and own my own successful computer consulting business that I built myself. Since I am under 25, are you saying that I have no right to defend myself? As part of my consulting business, I am required to drive into some bad areas of town, in a van that is full of computer equipment valued at up to $30,000. Well, obviously I won\'t be targetted because I\'m only 22, everyone knows criminals only attack those 25 and over.

i think 21 is too old a minimum age to purchase a handgun from a licensed dealer. i think it should be 18 for handguns, 16 for long guns, and no restriction on ammo purchases.

i dont think there should be such a thing as a \'carry permit\', rather once a person has taken a course in their states laws about the use of deadly force, they become eligible, at say, 19.

two years ago, when alaska went to vermont style carry laws (meaning no license necessary to ccw), i mistakenly thought that it was a bad thing. i figured that if more people started carrying without knowing when the use of deadly force was justifiable, there would be the rhetorical \'blood in the streets\'. i was not alone in this prediction, though it was the minority opinion.
as it turns out, the only ones who lobby against unlicensed ccw are police who now have to treat all they come across as if they are armed, instead of assuming only those whose license plates are flagged as being registered to a permit holder.
even still, my office overlooks an intersection where at least 5 cars get pulled over for traffic violations. not once have i ever seen a driver get disarmed.

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Originally posted by HighFever

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Originally posted by Kahrman
Well I guess I am going to be the contrary opinion here. I believe it should be 25. If you have military service or law enforcement I would waiver it, but my exposure to the \"under 25 crowd\" is that they are a tad too cocky and full of bravado. That negatively affects their ability to be responsible, IMO.

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I don\'t agree with you but I think I know what you are saying. Correct me if I\'m wrong. I\'m only 22 and am new to shooting, but there are alot of guys I know that are just not grown up yet. Cocky is a good description in some case, immature probably is closer to the way I see them. They even make me feel old. My parents have always said that I was very mature for my age because I never wore my hat backwards, my pants a foot below my waist or got into the goth or drug scene like some of my friends did. There are few of my friends or just people I know that I would want to be around if they had a gun with them. I also know some adults that I would not want to be around if they had a gun either, but probably less of them than my age.

Maybe there needs to be some other measure of maturity rather than age for CCW.

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Kahrman will have to answer for himself, but I expect that the \"hat backwards, pants a foot below their waist, goth and drug scene crowd\" are what he was talking about. IMHO, most of that group (in states that require it) would not have the inclination to attend a CCW class and pass the test. I believe 21 is where it should be....

I\'m 23. I\'m not a remarkably different person than I was 3 years ago. Now I admit I\'m more experienced and worldly wise, more cunning if you will, but not more responsible than I was back then or any less.

What gets me is that you\'ll trust me with the safety and supervision of 30 juveniles at a time for 8 hours a day but I can\'t rent a car because I\'m not old enough. And there are some who would tell me I can\'t have a gun because I\'m not old enough.

I pay my own insurance premiums. I buy my own groceries. I pay taxes. So God darn it I\'m old enough to own anything I want to and take it where I damn well please.

As far as I\'m concerned, if 18 years old is old enough to vote for the leader of the free world, defend our country, and be put to death by the state, it\'s certainly old enough for beer or a handgun.

Is 21 old enough? I don\'t know about you all but I did not start mellowing out untill I was in my 40\'s. And I had much rather have a 18 year old I don\'t know that has been trained, certified, and jumped though all the legal hoops to get his CCw becide me.....than the gang banger, BG, nutcase, that all ready are out there.:)

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Originally posted by Bumper
Kahrman will have to answer for himself, but I expect that the \"hat backwards, pants a foot below their waist, goth and drug scene crowd\" are what he was talking about.

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That is exactly the \"crowd\" that I was talking about and didn\'t mean to get those under 25 in an uproar. We all agree (at least I should hope) that there is an age at which a CCW permit would be out of the question. My opinion is moveable on the age, but there needs to be a criteria that would weed out the crowd highlighted above. For those that disagree regarding my saying age 25, I would remind you to look at the insurance industry. Age 25 is the magic age that insurance rates go down for young people. Statistically, those under 25 are involved in more traffic accidents. That is a fact. I believe the reason that they do is the level of experience, judgement and an overall maturing that humans go through. Some mature early (clipse, High Fever, mikemsd) and others do not (I could mention one, but won\'t) and believe me, I would not hesitate to shoot with, or trust, clipse, mikemsd and High Fever with a CCW. Both of you alluded to the fact that many of your friends would not be trusted, by you, with a gun. And, I agree that I would not trust some of my friends in their 30\'s around me with a gun. Percentage wise I think you will find more irresponsibility in youth than you will in adulthood. Law enforcement and military build responsibility, thus my statement about a waiver for those two activites. Maybe a more comprehensive test below age 25 would be more in order than just denying them. I don\'t know. But I don\'t want some of these people that will wreck the image of CCW permit holders being anything but responsible with their carry, to have permits.

An example would be gangbangers. Let\'s picture a moment a carload of gangbangers out committing a drive by shooting. For the sake of arguement, lets also say this particular carload of vermin don\'t have felonies on their records so are, before getting caught, were \"legally excercising their right to carry concealed weapons\". Imagine the headlines. You will not find many over 25 in gangs and by adulthood the criminal element will have a felony that will not allow them to have a CCW privelege.

You can disagree with me as much as you want to, but if you think a bunch of irresponsible people legally able to carry concealed weapons will not skew the statistics of how few CCW holders have their permits revoked, you are just kidding yourselves. You are wrong. The gunbanners are all waiting patiently in the shadows looking for a negative statistic so they can end our party.

I have to say some of you guys get pretty riled quickly when someone disagree with you. I am not the enemy just because I don\'t agree with every opinion you may have. :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by Tincup
Do all 18-24 year olds fall in this catagory, obviously not, but then again I\'m one of those guys that thinks that military service should be compulsory for evey male and female upon graduation from high school, which also should be compulsory!

Unfortunately there must be age limits on things however unjustified and artificial they may seem at the time, and right now most states have set that limit at 21.

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Absolutely, and the point I was trying to make. :yawn:

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Originally Posted by Kahrman

An example would be gangbangers. Let\'s picture a moment a carload of gangbangers out committing a drive by shooting. For the sake of arguement, lets also say this particular carload of vermin don\'t have felonies on their records so are, before getting caught, were \"legally excercising their right to carry concealed weapons\". Imagine the headlines. You will not find many over 25 in gangs and by adulthood the criminal element will have a felony that will not allow them to have a CCW privelege.

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I suppose you actually believe that these types of irresponsible scum would go to the trouble of training and applications so the law would allow them to carry a firearm concealed? Surely your not that nieve. The irresponsible people I know wouldn\'t go through the trouble. They don\'t even care to carry.

But if you actually believe that you the age limit should be 25 for CCW in order to keep the gangbangers, thugs, and wannabes out then there is absolutely no point in talking to you about this. Because (like I stated before) that is the same reason that antis like Micheal Moore and Rosie use for thier argument it ban all weapons. Unfortunately your looking more and more like you belong in that class. I don\'t know you personally but I don\'t like hearing people that are supposed to be fighting for our rights, talk like you do. Its sad, really. :(

clipse

During the range portion of my training a middle-aged woman to my right was shooting a new Glock she had not removed from the box - until that very day. Until that day she had never even handled a handgun of ANY type. Over that four hours I heard the range officer repeatedly holler out to her \"Muzzle down range! Finger off the trigger!\" After a while I didn\'t even glance in her direction for fear I would see the pistol pointed at me.

On my left was a somewhat elderly doctor with a .38 snub he dropped - twice. The fellow even answered his cell phone while we stood on the firing line. Obviously responsible weapon handling has little to do with years lived. And eight hours of training is a joke. Eight hundred hours wouldn\'t be enough for some of them. The training should be at least as difficult as a Driver\'s Ed course. There should be a written test - and it should be HARD (the written portion of the driving test in MO is not easy). The shooting portion should require MUCH more than it currently does. To get your MO Driver\'s License you must prove you can parallel park. To legally carry we should prove we can do far more than simply hit a huge sillhouette at close range.

The issue is NOT age - it is responsible, verifiable proficiency. If you can\'t convincingly prove you possess proficiency with your sidearm - AND that you are well-versed in the complexities of the use of lethal force - you should fail the course.

The first black mark against lawful MO CCW will likely be at the hands of an idiot - not a young citizen.