new gun law could help stop tragedies like Newtown massacre - Page 2

new gun law could help stop tragedies like Newtown massacre

This is a discussion on new gun law could help stop tragedies like Newtown massacre within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by From the article The deadly school shooting in Connecticut came less than 24 hours after Michigan lawmakers passed legislation that allows those ...

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Thread: new gun law could help stop tragedies like Newtown massacre

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    The deadly school shooting in Connecticut came less than 24 hours after Michigan lawmakers passed legislation that allows those with concealed pistol licenses to carry guns into schools and other once forbidden places.
    Quote Originally Posted by From the article
    Officials at Plymouth Canton Community Schools had not read the legislation Friday, but said they doubted they would allow guns at the district’s schools.

    “We are educators, not police,” said Frank Ruggirello, spokesman for the district.
    And, as citizens, we're not sacrificial lambs.

    Glad to see such legislation being passed, assuming it's got sane and rational lingo in it. Apparently though, it's only applicable to CHL carriers who opt for additional mandated training.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.


  2. #17
    New Member Array drrk13's Avatar
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    this would be a great thing to happen, though it will not stop school shootings from happening it will greatly reduce the number of causalities because teachers will no longer have to wait for the police to show up or the person committing the act to turn the weapon on themselves

  3. #18
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    Yes it is only for those who choose to go through further mandated training which will eliminate many who did not want to take the classes in the first place.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array KBSR's Avatar
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    I would volunteer to help train teachers and school administrators, should the politicians wake up and realize that it takes a good man (or woman) with a gun to counter a bad man (or woman) with a gun. Every teacher or school administrator won't qualify or be suited for this additional collateral duty, but many would.

    There isn't any one size fits all solution to combatting evil, IMHO. Soft targets are just that, soft targets. While I pray for the victims of this senseless tragedy, to include the first responders that had to work that horrific crime scene, I also know that all too soon the american public's attention will be shifted to the latest media focus of the day. Enacting laws against inanimate objects won't/don't work, and intellectually we all know this. Fake tears & high capacity magazine bans don't help either. Hardening otherwise soft targets (Fences with locked gates, doors with real locks might be part of a solution), and doing away with the fairy tale "Gun Free Zone" are are all steps in the right direction.

    The airline industry hardened cockpit doors after 9-11, and I don't recall another instance of a BG gaining access to a flight deck. While that small step isn't 100% effective, it could be a huge contribution to school safety. I'd much rather have a whack job at the door or at the fence, than inside the confines of a school, that is full of innocents, who deserve our very best effort at keeping them safe.

    God bless the little children, parents and families of this tragedy. I also pray for the first responders that were forced to work this most horrific crime scene. They'll not be the same after witnessing this, I'm certain. Hopefully good will prevail over evil.
    " But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... Baa." Col. Dave Grossman on Sheep and Sheepdogs.

  5. #20
    Distinguished Member Array sonnycrocket's Avatar
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    we spend BILLIONS on airport security now its time to have a few armed guards at every school 24/7
    Anubis likes this.

  6. #21
    Member Array rmxer85's Avatar
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    What would be wrong with a system much like to Air Marshalls. One or two trained FIGHTERS that double as a math teacher, counselor, or janitor; in complete secrecy.
    A uniform is a great deterrent until it becomes a target. If noone knows, the good guys have a better chance.

    Training teachers is well and good. I think better results would come from a warrior being trained to teach.
    I thoroughly disapprove of duels.
    If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand
    and lead him to a quiet place and kill him.
    -Mark Twain

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Weeg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob O View Post
    "“We are educators, not police,” said Frank Ruggirello, spokesman for the district."

    What a poor excuse for a responsible human being this guy is!


    Bobo


    Strange...


    My Aunt "P" taught school in a VERY rough part of a rough city (Buffalo, NY), and violent crime was the NORM there...I remember seeing armed dudes there...


    .

  8. #23
    Distinguished Member Array RightsEroding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Bob O.

    I respectfully have to disagree. Not everyone has it in their nature to be a cop, member of the military or firefighter, some just want to carry on their lives in there chosen profession in this case an educator.
    I must disagree with you Tacman.

    We claim in this country to have a "war on drugs"...yet we do not treat it as such.

    Israel; a great example of citizenry/gov PRO-ACTIVE response. Here is a country at constant war.
    All citizens of legal age serve in the military. Further; nearly all keep arms at home at the ready.

    If this country declares war on violence, we also need to be ready.

    Embargo's, sanctions, laws and policies do not stop illegal activity.

    War on terror? Same thing....we do not treat it as such.

    Illegal immigrants is yet another example of a half measure response.

    Why?

    Because we as a nation have not yet purposed in our hearts and minds what needs to be done for fear of offending someone or not being politically correct!
    We know what needs to be done but are afraid to do it.

    Extreme problems require extreme action.

    Some will claim such measures deprive us of our liberty. News flash: We already have lost much of our liberty.

    In my city, at (some) of the schools, we have armed guards and metal detectors. While these measures don't guarantee 100% success, they sure help.
    I doubt the Conn massacre would have gone as far as it did with armed security.

    We live is dangerous days. The world is more violent now.
    Deal with the causes AND for now, use what ever remedy is necessary to secure the safety of our people.

    In the case of schools I see only (2) choices, arm the teachers (all of them) or turn every school into a secure compound.
    "When those who are governed do too little, those who govern can, and will, do too much." Ronald Reagan

    Do what you can; then do what you must

  9. #24
    Member Array Obie1's Avatar
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    We don't know all the facts yet in this atrocity (I hate hearing it's a "tragedy" as if this were a natural disaster), but it is possible someone in the principal's office could have stopped him had they been armed.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmxer85 View Post
    What would be wrong with a system much like to Air Marshalls. One or two trained FIGHTERS that double as a math teacher, counselor, or janitor; in complete secrecy.
    A uniform is a great deterrent until it becomes a target. If noone knows, the good guys have a better chance.

    Training teachers is well and good. I think better results would come from a warrior being trained to teach.
    Air Marshals are an illusion of security. Few flights have them. Until you have armed teachers in every school, in every wing, every building, it would only be another illision of security. And even then they would only act in response to something, seldom if ever "preventing" it.
    Retired USAF E-8. Lighten up and enjoy life because:
    Paranoia strikes deep, into your heart it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid... Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth

  11. #26
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    You can arm everyone at the school down to the cafeteria lady but if they do not train and continue to train they will not contribute to the solution but simply add to the problem and there is no way to mandate them to do so.

    SRO's, armed security you bet, metal detectors at the door, damn straight, more cameras, no access to the school period unless authorized no problem. My kids elementary school has camera's and an intercom system at the doors so you must check in with the office before you can even get in.

    I would love to see required service for everyone 18 or over, not legally here get out, import/deal drugs life w/o parole and so on but as you stated it would mean giving up liberties and more Government laws, rules and regulations which will not go over at all. You are correct that we, as a nation, don't want to offend anyone and have placed politically correct ahead of common sense but I am afraid we have started down a hill with bad brakes and can't turn around easily.

    Not everyone wants to be a defender of the weak and no matter what they cannot be made to it is their choice. Should teachers/parents be allowed to carry at school? With the proper training and proficiency standards set yes. Should Bob the retired CPA who carries his J frame that he has not shot since he got his permit three years ago? Nope.

    Note: No offense intended against those named Bob, CPA's, or retirees.
    ccw9mm likes this.
    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Just like the other public shootings folks are jumping up and down "If only there had been a person there with a gun" they could have stopped this. Could they?
    Tacman605, I understand and agree with your position. The answer is possibly (probably) not. Having armed staff and guards would be a large part security theater for the reasons you mention. However, it would also introduce the psychological effect of the unknown in that an attacker may encounter active, armed resistance. It also changes the answer to the question of, 'could they have stopped this' from definitely and absolutely not to a maybe and having a chance and an option to act.

  13. #28
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    Mr Ruggirello, you are right, you are not a police officer but you still have a responsibility to provide a safe learning environment. If you can't do that perhaps you should find a job in which you are much more comfortable in meeting the expectations.

    As a teacher, I routinely advise my students on taking protective measures involving various scenarios. This is in addition to the fire drills that the school occassionally executes. I take my job seriously!

  14. #29
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    the only thing that separates my ccw and me is a metal detector!

  15. #30
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    I think we could start by having returning war vets that are unemployed become a sentry at each building, then go with the teacher/staff training and CCW. I'd gladly sign up and yes, if I heard shots in my building, (I am one of the rare males that teaches elementary school) and I were armed and trained, I'd run towards the situation. My daughter is a Kindergartener in one of my schools. The thought that I am helpless to stop this is maddening. I would gladly give up a weeknight to drive 1/2 hour to the pistol range and shoot a box or two of .40. I would hope the district/state/ etc. would assist with the cost of ammunition. I all ready have the Glock.

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