It's gratifying to see that felony charges have been filed... - Page 2

It's gratifying to see that felony charges have been filed...

This is a discussion on It's gratifying to see that felony charges have been filed... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard I'm not so sure. The first account I read stated that the vehicle had been driven toward him by the unruly ...

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Thread: It's gratifying to see that felony charges have been filed...

  1. #16
    Member Array Only Glock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I'm not so sure. The first account I read stated that the vehicle had been driven toward him by the unruly perp. One might argue that shooting the driver would have been fully justified, yet at the same time firing in the air to make a point is forbidden? Look at the outcomes. Probably a dead driver v no one harmed.

    It is true that firing into the air instead of the ground (and not even that) posed a risk to others, but good grief, I'm not so sure this wasn't self defense. A very oud noise at the right time can be a defensive move.

    Given that all the players were licensed and they were not the cause of the altercation ( again according to my first read a few days ago), I think the DA is over reacting. Let it go with a warning. Suspend the carry license, whatever.

    I'm not saying the smartest moves were made by the player, just that the situation seemed to require a defensive move; his biggest mistake might have been firing in the air not because it was reckless, but because he might have then been hit by the car he failed to stop.

    I like the outcome. No one hurt.
    If one is not justified in firing AT a threat, then he/she is not justified in firing at all. As far as I am concerned (both as a CCW and LEO), there is NO WAY to justify "warning shots". PERIOD. If he DID fire into the air, he should be charged and have his CCW revoked. If I was the LEO that handled this case, if I found he fired into the air, I would have arrested/charged him on the spot.

    Charlie
    When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.
    From the essay "TRIBES" by Bill Whittle


  2. #17
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    Yes, but

    Quote Originally Posted by Only Glock View Post
    If one is not justified in firing AT a threat, then he/she is not justified in firing at all. As far as I am concerned (both as a CCW and LEO), there is NO WAY to justify "warning shots". PERIOD. If he DID fire into the air, he should be charged and have his CCW revoked. If I was the LEO that handled this case, if I found he fired into the air, I would have arrested/charged him on the spot.

    Charlie
    Yes, the law is clear. Don't draw unless justified in firing at the perp.
    However, we hear all of the time that 2,000,000 incidents per year end up with no one harmed merely because a gun was drawn, the perp. saw it, and took off.

    Our laws need a bit of a re-write, as obviously drawing without firing often achieves the objective of thwarting a crime WITHOUT actual violence. In the latest issue of Concealed Carry Magazine a home owner held 5 home invaders at gunpoint while waiting 25 minutes for the law to arrive. Was he to just go ahead and shoot all 5 because the law says never draw unless you intend to shoot?

    In deciding whether or not to charge, or even in deciding how to handle things when you arrive on the scene as the LEO there, it is the big picture that should count. Don't go around looking to file any thing you can possibly find to file on.

    The guy we are discussing was faced with a car being driven at him, and if I recall the details, with some additional angry bums.

    In the end, no one was hurt. I'd say the right thing was actually done.

    And ---I'm old enough to vividly recall the massacre at Kent State University in the early 1970s. Wouldn't the outcome have been much better for everyone concerned if the guardsmen, having lost their cool, fired into the ground instead of right at the crowd?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bumper View Post
    Agreed, I think drawing and firing into the air would be considered a chargeable crime, and I expect that he will not be a permit holder for long, unless there is more to the story than we are aware of. His day in court should uncover the facts in the case. I'll be curious how it turns out for him, as a "celebrity"....
    I agree; however, without more info I have a problem with 5 shots.

  4. #19
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    Our laws need a bit of a re-write, as obviously drawing without firing often achieves the objective of thwarting a crime WITHOUT actual violence. In the latest issue of Concealed Carry Magazine a home owner held 5 home invaders at gunpoint while waiting 25 minutes for the law to arrive. Was he to just go ahead and shoot all 5 because the law says never draw unless you intend to shoot?

    Man, that is a terrifying prospect.

    Just imagine being there in a living room holding even one person at gunpoint for any length of time, let alone five.

    What do you do if one or more of them start mouthing off about how "you ain't gonna do nuthin'" if they get up and stomp you, stuff like that? You can't just shoot them for saying it. You shoot one, and then the others know you mean it, but then four guys testify that you shot the one guy for no good reason, when you already had them all captured! (And if you don't think a court or jury has a chance at believing them, you don't read enough newspapers!)

    Of course, you could shoot all five to leave no witnesses, but I hardly believe that forensics would not show you had essentially executed five people.

    Anyone have ideas for what they would say or do if they had to essentially herd five home invaders (by definition, violent attackers) while waiting 25 minutes for police?!

  5. #20
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    The guy we are discussing was faced with a car being driven at him, and if I recall the details, with some additional angry bums.

    In the end, no one was hurt. I'd say the right thing was actually done.
    Well, I don't think that some actual harm has to be done for recklessness to be charged. The recklessness charge is brought when you can show that someone's actions could have reasonably resulted in harm. It's the law's way of saying, "We don't want to wait til you actually DO harm someone with your reckless behavior before we get to punish you for chancing it each time."

    I would hardly say the "right thing was done" just because no one happened to be under any one of five falling bullets.

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