This is what is being allowed to happen (CONN Shooting) - Page 2

This is what is being allowed to happen (CONN Shooting)

This is a discussion on This is what is being allowed to happen (CONN Shooting) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by SayVandelay because you'd have schools where not one teacher had a gun. Paying one or two retired cops, to watch a camera ...

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  1. #16
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayVandelay View Post
    because you'd have schools where not one teacher had a gun. Paying one or two retired cops, to watch a camera and sign people in or out could stop the threat before a kid even has to see anything. I'm not saying the teachers shouldnt be allowed to carry, but it doesnt proactively address the problem of school shootings
    It doesnt even have to take that much. one way in one way out school entrances (not including alarmed emergency exits). My school when I was younger had this in practice, coupled with having to be a parent/ guardian of a student to visit unless a previous appointment with staff was made. That should be a standard for all schools. an School administrator/ secretary can have an office in the front to control entrance, and I guarantee if said person was armed thats all the deterrence one would need. paying for outside personnel is just a waste of money.


  2. #17
    Member Array Glock36carry's Avatar
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    For my own personal health I'm going to have to avoid the news cycle for the next week or two. My blood pressure has been through the roof since Bloomberg et all. starting flapping their jaws before the poor little bodies were even cold. Despicable.

    Crap, that was political too. My apologies.
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  3. #18
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    Welcome, and thank you for your service! As an alternative, why not allow legal concealed carry in all schools? If perpetrators understood they might well be attacking a "harder" target rather than a "Victim Zone" they might reconsider.
    I agree with that whole heartedly... Even in the case of a murder suicide scenario, the injury/death toll would be significantly less if by some miracle one was to get around standard school security practices, if one or more faculty would be able to respond instead of cower and wait for emergency responders.

  4. #19
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock36carry View Post
    For my own personal health I'm going to have to avoid the news cycle for the next week or two. My blood pressure has been through the roof since Bloomberg et all. starting flapping their jaws before the poor little bodies were even cold. Despicable.

    Crap, that was political too. My apologies.
    Trust me I feel you... after the Libya incident I went on a 5 day long political rampage on the forums... LOL

  5. #20
    Ex Member Array SayVandelay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieEOD View Post
    That should be a standard for all schools. an School administrator/ secretary can have an office in the front to control entrance, and I guarantee if said person was armed thats all the deterrence one would need. paying for outside personnel is just a waste of money.
    So you're saying that every teacher administrator and secretary should be REQUIRED to carry a gun? And that people who are trained to use them to save your kids life is a waste of money? I'm guessing you dont have kids. Because if it comes down to money ...fire the principal and his gun toting secretary and put the money into hiring some security

  6. #21
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    First welcome to the forum.

    It would take more than a mental health exam. Skills based training would have to be introduced. LE type active shooter drills practiced, who would foot the bill? The teacher, the school district? How many would actually go?

    Just because there would/should/could have been someone in the school with a gun would they have the mindset, skillset and equipment to go to the sound of gunfire and eliminate the threat? Several posts on this and other forums indicate that many unless they themselves are in jeopardy would not intervene for whatever reason.

    Not all but many of the gun toting public barely have enough training or common sense not to shoot themselves much less intervene against an armed intruder with a rifle. Would they be willing to place their life in the path of a bullet to save someone? Many would not but that is their choice and no one can fault them for it. Yes school officials are "honor" bound to protect our kids from bullies, drugs, skinned knees on the playground not from someone roaming the halls with a rifle. They have chosen their profession as an educator not a SWAT cop or bodyguard. Armed security or school resource officers great all for it but the average gun toting, untrained or barely trained gun owner, not hardly.

    Sorry missed this before.

    and I guarantee if said person was armed thats all the deterrence one would need.
    No offense but it this were true the bank that welcomed armed customers, gunshops and police stations would never be robbed or attacked. Yes a piss ant punk is deterred but as I have said many times before that one determined individual does not give a hoot whether you, a principal, gun shop owner or cop is armed, he will still do what he wants.
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    "A first rate man with a third rate gun is far better than the other way around". The gun is a tool, you are the craftsman that makes it work. There are those who say "if I had to do it, I could" yet they never go out and train to do it. Don't let stupid be your mindset. Harryball 2013

  7. #22
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayVandelay View Post
    So you're saying that every teacher administrator and secretary should be REQUIRED to carry a gun? And that people who are trained to use them to save your kids life is a waste of money? I'm guessing you dont have kids. Because if it comes down to money ...fire the principal and his gun toting secretary and put the money into hiring some security
    I think were not on the same wave length lol. I'm saying that anyone willing to carry be given an extra pay incentive, that would cost less to the tax payers and do the same thing as private security. If an "office" faculty whom is armed were to do there work at the front near the only entrance/exit it would pre-empt the need to have everyone armed but more so have a few people strategically placed around the school to respond if need be. just an Idea. If there were only one way in/ out (minus alarmed emergency exits) that would be all the security the school would really need.

  8. #23
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    First welcome to the forum.

    It would take more than a mental health exam. Skills based training would have to be introduced. LE type active shooter drills practiced, who would foot the bill? The teacher, the school district? How many would actually go?

    Just because there would/should/could have been someone in the school with a gun would they have the mindset, skillset and equipment to go to the sound of gunfire and eliminate the threat? Several posts on this and other forums indicate that many unless they themselves are in jeopardy would not intervene for whatever reason.

    Not all but many of the gun toting public barely have enough training or common sense not to shoot themselves much less intervene against an armed intruder with a rifle. Would they be willing to place their life in the path of a bullet to save someone? Many would not but that is their choice and no one can fault them for it. Yes school officials are "honor" bound to protect our kids from bullies, drugs, skinned knees on the playground not from someone roaming the halls with a rifle. They have chosen their profession as an educator not a SWAT cop or bodyguard. Armed security or school resource officers great all for it but the average gun toting, untrained or barely trained gun owner, not hardly.
    Extra training could be provided over the summer when most teachers have off or at least slightly more time, paid for by the school. and I guarantee it'd be less expensive than hiring outside security at 13 bucks an hr just to sit. As far as the mindset, it is not mandatory to do this, those whom want the responsibility are to be used. What is the difference between expecting an armed teacher, an underpaid security guard, or a late arriving officer. Mindset comes with the job. and if this is an issue, get more ex military to be teachers and problem solved lol.

  9. #24
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayVandelay View Post
    So you're saying that every teacher administrator and secretary should be REQUIRED to carry a gun? And that people who are trained to use them to save your kids life is a waste of money? I'm guessing you dont have kids. Because if it comes down to money ...fire the principal and his gun toting secretary and put the money into hiring some security
    And just so you are aware I am the proud father of a beautiful lil girl. I cringe every day to think of her growing up in this world when I see stuff like this happen. But at the same time I understand Everything has a price and a level of effectiveness. Finding the balance is important... Our kids are more likely to be hit by a car or kidnapped than they are to be involved in a school shooting. What I advocate are cost effective ways to add a little piece of mind to parents like us that cannot be there to protect them all of the time. If time was no object us we would home school wouldn't we? or send them to private school etc.

  10. #25
    Ex Member Array SayVandelay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieEOD View Post
    I think were not on the same wave length lol. I'm saying that anyone willing to carry be given an extra pay incentive, that would cost less to the tax payers and do the same thing as private security. If an "office" faculty whom is armed were to do there work at the front near the only entrance/exit it would pre-empt the need to have everyone armed but more so have a few people strategically placed around the school to respond if need be. just an Idea. If there were only one way in/ out (minus alarmed emergency exits) that would be all the security the school would really need.
    It doesnt address school shootings directly enough. Gun control supporters are going to come at this with "new policy", and we have to come up with a policy that addresses the problem better and in a MORE proactive way than the idea of stricter gun control laws. If they went into a professional discussion about what to do and said "lets give teachers a pay bonus to carry a gun and be placed in a strategic classroom" nobody would take them seriously. A small security team is a presence and it would stop some threats before they even became ideas. I just dont think its better to risk having the fight come to the kids when it could stop at the door.
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  11. #26
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayVandelay View Post
    It doesnt address school shootings directly enough. Gun control supporters are going to come at this with "new policy", and we have to come up with a policy that addresses the problem better and in a MORE proactive way than the idea of stricter gun control laws. If they went into a professional discussion about what to do and said "lets give teachers a pay bonus to carry a gun and be placed in a strategic classroom" nobody would take them seriously. A small security team is a presence and it would stop some threats before they even became ideas. I just dont think its better to risk having the fight come to the kids when it could stop at the door.
    So our only course of action to shut up the nay sayers is to essentially make each school a fire base... why stop there, we can use guard towers with spot lights and 20 ft tall fences lined with razor wire, ooo we can even electrify it.... I feel thats what the conversation would boil down to... Cost effectiveness and plausible are better than a show of force.

  12. #27
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Who knows maybe this is what teachers would need to be a "valued" profession again. Public support if a teacher or group of stopped this kind of thing would be never ending and the message would be out to psychos. Don't tread on us.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rock and Glock View Post
    [B]If perpetrators understood they might well be attacking a "harder" target rather than a "Victim Zone" they might reconsider.
    Exactly. Almost every time we hear about a mass shooting it takes place in a location where the good guys have been legally disarmed under the guise of safety and security.

    Quote Originally Posted by SayVandelay View Post
    So you're saying that every teacher administrator and secretary should be REQUIRED to carry a gun?
    I don't think anybody is saying that anyone should be REQUIRED to carry. Whether or not to carry is a personal decision and a great responsibility. The current standard is legal disarmament and it clearly doesn't work. What it DOES do is take away the choice from EVERYBODY.
    Edit: I should have said, everybody except the mass murderer or criminal who won't abide by any laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by tacman605 View Post
    Just because there would/should/could have been someone in the school with a gun would they have the mindset, skillset and equipment to go to the sound of gunfire and eliminate the threat? Several posts on this and other forums indicate that many unless they themselves are in jeopardy would not intervene for whatever reason.
    I effectively agreed with you in another thread. Again, you are correct. Not everybody would be able to respond effectively. However, I don't see this as being justification for the current disarmament standards which means that nobody, including those who would do what it takes to be able to make a difference, has that option. Of course this raises the question of what standards should be required, to which I don't have a ready answer, but I do think it is time to take a different approach than gun free zones and additional restrictions on those who are not the problem.
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  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array lchamp's Avatar
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    If anyone in that front office had been armed, perhaps dozens of children would have been saved.
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  15. #30
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    I know a few teachers and for the most part they are very liberal in their views. However, I do know one middle school teacher who would be first in line for taking on the role of sheepdog.

    It works in Israel, why not here?
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