This is what is being allowed to happen (CONN Shooting) - Page 4

This is what is being allowed to happen (CONN Shooting)

This is a discussion on This is what is being allowed to happen (CONN Shooting) within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Many have read my stand and there are many that feel the same way just as you do Josh...

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  1. #46
    VIP Member Array shadowwalker's Avatar
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    Many have read my stand and there are many that feel the same way just as you do Josh


  2. #47
    VIP Member Array Crowman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieEOD View Post

    I am an outraged patriot, I am in ever lasting awe of how far ignorance can take us despite statistics stating otherwise.
    Hmmm, you better watch it Cookie Homeland Security doesn't look kindly on patriots.....

    Welcome to the forum that is loaded with Patriots.....
    "One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation."
    --Thomas B. Reed, American Attorney

    Second Amendment -- Established December 15, 1791 and slowly eroded ever since What happened to "..... shall not be infringed."

  3. #48
    VIP Member Array Smitty901's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SayVandelay View Post
    I agree, but for that to have saved lives in this instance, you'd have to assume that just because they can have them they will have them . Im not sure if you remember your first grade teacher, but did she seem like the kind of person who wished she could carry a gun? My principal? Maybe, but he wore baby blue suits and white shoes.
    What would be better, as much as it sucks to think about, is if each school had just one or two trained security guards. We have hi tech security protecting us at the mall, but math teachers and librarians protecting our kids.
    Your first grade teacher and the one in class today live in two different worlds and have nothing in common
    phreddy and tacman605 like this.

  4. #49
    VIP Member Array 9MMare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sioux565 View Post
    Welcome to the forum Josh and thank you for your service.

    To be honest, I have no clue if anything regarding "gun control" will arise after this incident. Look at all of the other mass shootings this year and how little was done after each incident. Just my opinion.
    Please accept my welcome and thanks as well Josh.

    You'll find that I am one of the more self-contained members here when it comes to gun use...and 'they're coming to take our guns' stuff.


    And even I think that now. There will be repercussions here and they are going to start proposing more gun control laws. We need to be prepared.

    If I can find an MP Sheild today, I'm buying it. And I am going to be prepared to miss work and peacefully march on Olympia. And round up as many other people as I can to do so.

    Edit: and my sign will tell people that I am female, a Democrat, and ex- software firm that I wont name at the moment.

    Hey...no jokes. Of course they can tell I'm a woman if they see me...I just want it to be seen above the crowd
    blitzburgh likes this.
    Fortune favors the bold.

    Freedom doesn't mean safe, it means free.

    The thing about "defense" is that it has practically nothing to do with guns. (As passed on by CCW9MM)

  5. #50
    Distinguished Member Array noway2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9MMare View Post
    And even I think that now. There will be repercussions here and they are going to start proposing more gun control laws. We need to be prepared. If I can find an MP Sheild today, I'm buying it.:
    I was saying to my wife today that after Xmas (i.e. money goes to gift buying) that one of the top priorities is get the AK that I've been wanting to buy before "they" say that we can't have them.
    blitzburgh likes this.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieEOD View Post
    I have stated else where but how is it that Airline Pilots were able to have a psych profile done to carry concealed on flights after 911 but it is too much to ask that we be allowed to do the same with school faculty. The staff are just as honor bound to protect students as any sworn security that the tax payer would have to pay for. I feel it just makes sense.
    There is one single huge problem with any form of psychological screening. The screener only learns what
    the person being screened wishes to say, wishes to admit to. No one is a mind reader. No one knows the
    inner thoughts of someone else unless they state them. At best, a guess can be made.

    The old saying, 'we all have thoughts that would shame the devil," comes to mind too.
    Even if someone reveals a vile thought pattern, that is not necessarily
    predictive of intent or future behavior.

    Psychological or psychiatric screening would be a huge and very expensive failure, and it would also punish
    many (by denying them something) who are not a true danger to others.

    Our NICS checks use a more basic approach--- past real behavior and incidents which have caused someone
    to be arrested or involuntarily committed. And even these are not good predictors of future behavior.

    Everyone one of us knows folks who are a bit off, some a lot off, who are no danger to anyone. And we know
    people who are pillars of society who as Richard Cory one calm summer night, lost it.

    Richard Cory by Edwin Arlington Robinson
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  7. #52
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    Josh, Thanks for stickin you neck out for us. Especially in EOD, thats gotta be a tough job.

    Obviously no one in their right mind who is a responsible gun owner would condone what this loser did. As far as Im concerned, this may have been the straw that breaks the camel's back in terms of inciting a real gun control action from your Commander in chief. Weve seen this coming for sometime as we all know he never likes to let a good crisis go to waste. In terms of specifics, I believe it will be another round of "assault" weapons bans, but that may just be the start of it. If the U.N goes ahead with its plan for total disarmament of the American people, there's going to be real trouble. Even the Japanese weren't stupid enough to try for invasion of the U.S because they knew there was rifle behind every blade of grass, bu the U.N thinks otherwise. I dont mean to come across as the guy wearing a tin-foil hat, but even with a moderate amount of research, you could see that we(America) have been in serious trouble since this president since this man set foot on the white house lawn. He's a community organizer that plays on people emotions to incite governance, not to mention chaos with OWS and George Zimmerman, led by emotion, not reasonable thinking. This ban will come down by executive order because he know the House will never pass this as a bill.
    The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly, is to fill the world with fools.--->Herbert Spencer

    Springfield xd 45, Sig Sauer SP2022(9mm),Remington 700(.308), Yugo M10 variant w/IZH Kobra optic,...and lots of ammo for all of 'em.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieEOD View Post
    More to the point, am I the only one who feels that if even one staff member had been allowed to carry concealed. Could you imagine how quickly all of these shootings would have ended if the assailant knew anyone could have been armed? If a principle or assistant principle had the legal right to be armed how many more of these student shootings do you all feel would happen successfully?
    Likely, many would still be harmed unless the facility in question has designed-in elements that are difficult to breach even by force.

    But, the point is well made. The only thing a completely unarmed staff ensures is that likely nobody will be capable of effectively thwarting an active, violent assailant; whereas, multiple armed and competent staffers could indeed have a good chance of doing exactly that, particularly if the assailant were essentially bottled up in a relatively victim-free area of the ingress area of the facility.
    CookieEOD likes this.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  9. #54
    Member Array mg27's Avatar
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    This case is hitting the heart of everyone and rightly so, But the news media is gonna take full advantage of this event to further their Anti gun aganda. You can see it already on all the cable news channels.. This one takes the cake and It is extremely hard to understand how anyone can kill children. I for backround checks, Im for keeping guns out of the hands of Mental people, but what worries me is I strongly believe that our govt is gonna try to take guns away. Make them illegal to own. They were already bashing the 2nd ammendment on msnbc saying when the 2nd ammendment was writen men owned slaves.. So were gonna have to fight like hell. This can happen anywhere and the only cure for it is more armed well trained citizens, its the only hope we have... Remember we need to be an armed public to keep govt in check or we are in trouble.. Hitler comes to mine.. I feel for the parents, sad couple days man!

  10. #55
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    There is one single huge problem with any form of psychological screening. The screener only learns what
    the person being screened wishes to say, wishes to admit to. No one is a mind reader. No one knows the
    inner thoughts of someone else unless they state them. At best, a guess can be made.

    The old saying, 'we all have thoughts that would shame the devil," comes to mind too.
    Even if someone reveals a vile thought pattern, that is not necessarily
    predictive of intent or future behavior.

    Psychological or psychiatric screening would be a huge and very expensive failure, and it would also punish
    many (by denying them something) who are not a true danger to others.

    Our NICS checks use a more basic approach--- past real behavior and incidents which have caused someone
    to be arrested or involuntarily committed. And even these are not good predictors of future behavior.

    Everyone one of us knows folks who are a bit off, some a lot off, who are no danger to anyone. And we know
    people who are pillars of society who as Richard Cory one calm summer night, lost it.

    Richard Cory by Edwin Arlington Robinson
    So when the secret service did my psych eval for a White House rotation, I only gave them the info I wanted them to? These psych screenings have been in use at the federal level for a few decades.... they seem to have done a decent enough job thus far.

  11. #56
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    I stated on another forum last night that all it would have taken was one unassuming, armed janitor and the headlines could have read "School Massacre Thwarted By Armed Citizen".
    Negative.

    If it did happen,you'd never see it.
    It's not sensational enough and it dosent further an agenda.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieEOD View Post
    So when the secret service did my psych eval for a White House rotation, I only gave them the info I wanted them to? These psych screenings have been in use at the federal level for a few decades.... they seem to have done a decent enough job thus far.
    Yes, you only gave them the information you wanted to. There is no way anyone can read your mind. A tester might
    determine that you are not being truthful, but that is not the same thing as discerning your deepest thoughts.

    They might determine that you aren't too bright or that you are exceptionally bright; they might determine that your way of thinking is not especially logical; that you are a trusting or suspicious person; but they can not discern what your future intentions are if you do not: 1) know those yourself; 2) reveal them.

    Subjecting every would be purchaser of a gun to any form of psychological testing would necessarily mean the testing
    is superficial, and therefore useless. And if not superficial it would be extremely costly to the point at which it would
    be the equivalent of a 2-3 K tax on every purchase.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  13. #58
    Member Array CookieEOD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Yes, you only gave them the information you wanted to. There is no way anyone can read your mind. A tester might
    determine that you are not being truthful, but that is not the same thing as discerning your deepest thoughts.

    They might determine that you aren't too bright or that you are exceptionally bright; they might determine that your way of thinking is not especially logical; that you are a trusting or suspicious person; but they can not discern what your future intentions are if you do not: 1) know those yourself; 2) reveal them.
    Im not intending for regular purchase... only for those to carry in a school, kind of like what soldiers doing white house details undertake or those pilots are subjected to to carry on a plane. Thats all
    Subjecting every would be purchaser of a gun to any form of psychological testing would necessarily mean the testing
    is superficial, and therefore useless. And if not superficial it would be extremely costly to the point at which it would
    be the equivalent of a 2-3 K tax on every purchase.
    Im not intending for regular purchase... only for those to carry in a school, kind of like what soldiers doing white house details undertake or those pilots are subjected to to carry on a plane. Thats all

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CookieEOD View Post
    Im not intending for regular purchase... only for those to carry in a school, kind of like what soldiers doing white house details undertake or those pilots are subjected to to carry on a plane. Thats all
    It would be window dressing. Something done to give the appearance of being cautious, and it would go wrong.
    At some point one of the "evaluated" would do wrong. It has happened before of course with LEOs who go bad or
    who become mentally ill over time after they are hired.

    I think you get more info from a background check where friends, neighbors, relatives, clerks at stores frequented are
    asked to give their opinion. But even that will give many false alarms and a rare thumbs up when it should have been thumbs
    down.

    Some things we grapple with do not have solutions. Wanton random gun violence perpetrated by nuts is one of them.
    What we do need to recognize is that with 300 million + people in our country, there are always 300,000 dangerous people
    floating about. And, many of them are not in jails and not getting treatment. Some of them are in fact our police officers,
    our mayors, our bosses, our religious leaders. They wear a thin coating of social civility, as for example the BTK killer.
    He had a great reputation in his community. No one would have given a thought to letting him guard a school.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by lchamp View Post
    If anyone in that front office had been armed, perhaps dozens of children would have been saved.

    We would like to think that, but he had a semi-automatic .223 with high capacity mags, and he wasn't afraid to die. Going up against him with a hand gun would almost certainly end you up dead unless you were extremely lucky.

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