Obama's speech

This is a discussion on Obama's speech within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I like my high-capacity magazines for my M1 carbines and I do not want to lose my ability to buy them....

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Thread: Obama's speech

  1. #211
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    I like my high-capacity magazines for my M1 carbines and I do not want to lose my ability to buy them.
    bmcgilvray and OD* like this.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

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  3. #212
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    I know I'm going to get crapped on for asking this, but I'm hoping I'll get one or two serious answers because it is intended as an honest, serious question.... If "arms are arms" as one person here said, why do the gun lobby and its supporters not push back against laws banning private ownership of shoulder-fired missiles or grenade launchers? Is it simply because, politically, it's not worth the fight? Or is it accepted that there's some sort of right-to-bear arms distinction between owning a Bushmaster and owning an RPG?

  4. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by norb5150 View Post
    Something is being covered up and changed here folks. Yes it was a tragedy. Yes it is uncalled for violence. But to immediatly attack gun owners? To change the story multiple times? The media is the headline of this attack on the free people. Why hasnt the NRA spoke? Because they cant even begin to decifer what is going on. And they know the media is bias. This is an all out attack on our individual freedoms one at a time. The media and the ones who want to enslave us are heading the effort.
    I don't think the story changing multiple times is sign of a cover-up by the media.

    The reason the story keeps changing is because the media has lost all credibility as journalists and reporters of fact. There is no more journalistic integrity where they verify the facts before they post a story. Instead, they post the most juicy rumor first, and then let it run while they eventually get around to going back and make a half assed attempt to find actual facts. And I'm talking about the AP too. Often times they actually post unsubstantiated drivel they've gotten off of Blogs. But by then, the damage is done.

    All they lose is their credibility. And it really appears that they do not care about their credibility anymore. Years ago, losing credibility was the kiss of death for a journalist or reporter and they became unemployed. Today, they get promoted to editor.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  5. #214
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    A study of 20th century history, both here in America and elsewhere in the world, validates the occasional need by a nation's citizens for the high-capacity magazine and no thinking person can claim otherwise.
    scgunlover1 likes this.
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  6. #215
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    Hop, I hear you. I understand... I too, have little or no need, at this time, for extended mags, an AR15, an AK47... not at this time... Fine.

    But kids, guess what... they are not going to limit just the weapons with black furniture... they are not going to limit just extended mags. Ah, and BTW, they are not going to give us national reciprocity.

    It's quite possible they will have national confiscation, at least of those items. Heller gives us the right to maintain an arm, even a handgun, in our own home for self defense... We might be safe there.... One gun. In your house... for self defense. period. Maybe.

    There are 180,000 signatures on petitions at the White house to:

    "Immediately address the issue of gun control through the introduction of legislation in Congress."

    Part of what they want is:
    "The signatures on this petition represent a collective demand for a bipartisan discussion resulting in a set of laws that regulates how a citizen obtains a gun."

    LINK

    180,000 is a small percentage of the population... no need to worry there... right? .06 of the population. nobody home.

    The "laws of sales" say that 1% - 1.5% of the recipients of a piece of direct mail advertising will respond positively to that ad... they will buy something. That's why you get so much junk mail.

    There are other rules of thumb regarding the population and their responses to things. How many people KNOW about the White house site where you can create or sign such a petition? Probably a small percentage... say 10% but let's say 20%.

    If the first premise is true... 1-1.5%; that means that 18 million people actually feel the same way about what the government should do regarding the killing spree in New Town. That's nearly 1% of the population, still an awful few to make change...

    But, if only 20 percent of the population even knows that such a petition exists (or CAN even exist)... that would mean that about 90 million feel that way. 1/3 of the population of the US. 76% of the population of the US is of voting age or above. That's 228 million.

    So, it's quite possible that 75 million or so people of voting age believe there should be some legislation to restrict our ability to buy guns... if other averages are correct... 37.5 million gun owners are among that population.

    My figures may all be hogwash... many statistics are...

    But, I'm afraid... and I think you should be too.... Be afraid... be very afraid...

    This could be the end of the 2nd as we know it...

    remember this post, if it happens.
    1MoreGoodGuy likes this.
    Rats!
    It could be worse!
    I suppose

  7. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    A study of 20th century history, both here in America and elsewhere in the world, validates the occasional need by a nation's citizens for the high-capacity magazine and no thinking person can claim otherwise.
    Yep, Korean store owners fending off looters and arsonists from atop the roof of their businesses during the Rodney King riots. The stores across the street burned to the ground, but theirs didn't.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  8. #217
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    I don't own an AR or a .223 caliber rifle. I do not see the need for me to own one. But I do not want to limit your right to own one because I don't have the current need for one. Just because you don't need something doesn't mean that the rest of us should be limited by your needs.
    Clodbert likes this.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  9. #218
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    After reading several comments from the moderators, I am very pleased that THEY are our moderators. You all are great. Thanks a lot. Seriously.
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  10. #219
    VIP Member Array 1MoreGoodGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack111 View Post
    I know I'm going to get crapped on for asking this, but I'm hoping I'll get one or two serious answers because it is intended as an honest, serious question.... If "arms are arms" as one person here said, why do the gun lobby and its supporters not push back against laws banning private ownership of shoulder-fired missiles or grenade launchers? Is it simply because, politically, it's not worth the fight? Or is it accepted that there's some sort of right-to-bear arms distinction between owning a Bushmaster and owning an RPG?
    Because your government decided long ago that the peasants shouldn't be allowed to have weapons of equal might to the ones that the ruling class have because if they did the peasants might pose a legitimate threat to their way of life and they might lose their control over you.

    Do you think it would be wise to use our limited resources on to trying to and get "shoulder-fired missiles" when we are having trouble retaining the right to own a rifle and certain types of magazines?

    They want to take all your weapons.
    Regards,
    1MoreGoodGuy
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    Behave Like Someone Who is Determined to be FREE!

  11. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksholder View Post
    You may not see them as a restriction right up to the time you have a HIR with 5 perps or you get caught in a flash mob event with a dozen miscreants trying to kick your head in. Then you just might want more than 5 or 10 rounds on tap. Just sayin.



    You must have skinny ankles - JK. Where the 30/33 rounders come in handy is for HD. I agree we probably can't CC them, but for that HIR, they could save the day. They fit well in a nightstand drawer if they fit a handgun.
    re: Part in bold--- So too a NY reload. I honestly can't recall a report here of an HD going down that way. And realistically,
    if you need to be putting out that much lead, you've got a bunch of really bad dudes dishing it out in the other direction. You won't likely come out alive. It is HD for crying out loud, not Pork Chop Hill.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
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  12. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    I like my high-capacity magazines for my M1 carbines and I do not want to lose my ability to buy them.
    Granted that. But think quickly. Something is going to happen which we won't like. If we can shape a solution which
    is relatively benign, we should. Would you rather lose high cap or lose the .223 round? I wouldn't put it past some
    legislatures to outlaw that particular round and put a 7 year penalty on it the way NJ does with hollow points. See,
    we better being pouring some oil on the waters before the storm swamps the boat.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  13. #222
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    Fact of the matter is, I want every resource and tool at my disposal to help me stay alive if I need it.

    Some politician or liberal screaming weenie with a limited metal capacity telling me that I can only carry x amount of ammo in whatever weapon I choose to use is insane. Its stupid. Its wrong.

    Please tell me why some law should be passed to limit what I carry because some insane person half a country over went an killed some people.

    It dosent make sense.

    At all.

    Period.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  14. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simonsay View Post
    Again, giving up high cap means nothing to you, so you are OK to lose it. I'm guessing you're OK with losing long range bolt guns and short barrelled shotguns too? Why not just get rid of anything "semi", since a 5 shot snubbie is adequate for SD? Let me know when I hit a nerve.

    Give it all up and it's not going to change crime or the criminals. That's the idiotic part of your argument. It won't change anything. If you are going to the table with a concession, at least have something of benefit. Some people have offered viable solutions, yet you continue to hound this trail.
    You are guessing wrong. All I am saying is that when a loss seems like it may be inevitable, try to limit the loss to the most
    acceptable and least harmful loss you can get. IMO that is trading high cap for national reciprocity. There may be
    better deals, and if someone can think of one, post it. But I promise you if we don't propose something the other side will impose something. What they propose and impose will be far worse.

    There are enough judo and jujitsu practitioners on here who know that the trick is to redirect and gain an advantage. See where I'm coming from now?
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  15. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcgilvray View Post
    "So from the point of view of concealed carry and defensive carry of handguns, giving up high cap is a big nothing. I'll trade a big nothing for something any time."


    Thanks for volunteering for me to give up my high-capacity magazines. I don't actually use them often or even consider them as an integral part of my overall shooting interests however I do enjoy the right to have them on hand just as I enjoy owning a vehicle with way more horsepower than is necessary for my daily travels.


    "Limiting magazine capacity IMO isn't an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms..."


    Magazine capacity restrictions undeniably limit the citizen's right to keep and bear effective arms. Effective that is in 21st century terms rather than in late 18th century terms. That hypothetical .22 single shot that keeps showing up, here in this and other threads, is a firearm but few here would be willing to be restricted to only such arms. Just how much restriction must we bear and how much is inflicted by the views of fellow firearms owners who are only too willing to trade out what is not important to them? One has to ask himself if he'd be annoyed with the owner of nothing more than a .22 single shot rifle being willing to give up the right to own any form of repeating arm simply because repeating firearms were not important to him. "It's not important to me" is a monstrous cop-out!

    You don't care about high-capacity magazines and desire national reciprocity? I live in Texas and typically don't travel in states that won't allow my concealed carry permit. I'm less concerned about national reciprocity but greatly concerned about the real underlying motives of a government that wants my high-capacity magazines. I find it disconcerting that other gun owners are willing to give in on facets of firearms ownership that they deem trivial.

    Anyway, there's no particular effort afoot to make a swap of curtailment of high-capacity magazines for national reciprocity, so such a trade-out is only wishful thinking on the part of some. A trade-out that, given the defeatist attitude exhibited by some here on the Forum, could very well turn to be giving in on something to get a big, fat, nothing in return!
    RE: part in bold. The motive is to save lives and that should be evident from the recent series of tragedies.

    I'm not volunteering you to give up your high cap. I'm telling you they are going to go whether you like it or not, so you and everyone on here better start thinking about how to mitigate
    the inevitable with some sort of proposal where we at least get a kind of win out of the deal.

    The courts read the newspapers and know what the public sentiment is. They won't get in the
    way of laws banning high cap or even banning the .223 round. We can yell and scream and
    complain all we want, but there is an inevitable backlash coming now that is going to undo
    30 years of gain if we don't figure out how to parry it.
    keboostman likes this.
    If the Union is once severed, the line of separation will grow wider and wider, and the controversies which are now debated and settled in the halls of legislation will then be tried in fields of battle and determined by the sword.
    Andrew Jackson

  16. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    if you need to be putting out that much lead, you've got a bunch of really bad dudes dishing it out in the other direction. You won't likely come out alive. It is HD for crying out loud, not Pork Chop Hill.
    Speaking of Pork Chop Hill, it's obvious you'd never make it in my beloved Marine Corps with an attitude like that.

    Just sayin'
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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